A thick fog of stupidity, jobsworths and Section 24

A thick fog of stupidity, jobsworths and Section 24

9:15 AM, 7th March 2023, About 2 years ago 16

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I have the unfortunate situation whereby the Child Maintenance Service looks at my pre-tax earnings for their calculation. Obviously, that means they “think” that my mortgage costs are earnings and so charge me 12% of that figure.

Given I am a lower tax band earner and that my BTL mortgage costs exceed 80% of my pre-tax earnings, this nearly doubles that which I actually earn. In effect, it puts me into the 40% tax bracket as that 12% that the CMS takes is pre-income tax, and there is no deduction in personal tax for CMS payments.

I spent 18 months complaining and arguing with them, but they are like a thick fog of stupidity and jobsworths. Their responses showed a lack of responsibility or concern or comprehension.

Included in my complaints was a letter from my accountant, they paid no heed to this.

I approached the HMRC technical department and the first gentleman I spoke to agreed the effect of the S24 process upon the CMS calculation was an unintended consequence. I asked if he would write me a letter for the CMS to which he agreed.

When the letter came it had nothing of our conversation, it only technically explained S24, which frankly my accountant and I had tried in vain. I then phoned HMRC again, but could not speak to this gentleman and ended up with a lady who repeatedly told me over and over that it was not her job.

I tried to stop paying the CMS and approached the ex directly, she was and remains un-empathic about the situation and just reported me to the CMS and they then, without due process, started to remove money from my bank account. I now pay 20% on top of the previous unjust figure as the CMS ad this fee for their own processing.

With mortgage rates doubling, you can see how this then increases my mortgage costs to above 100% of that which I actually earn. It is a dire situation, and if I sell the properties, of course the CGT then also gets added to my tax for CMS charges. It is a downward spiral of insolvency.

If it wasn’t for the fact that I was fortunate to buy my properties at the lows of 2009-2012, I’m sure I would be wiped out by now.

My portfolio was never enough to warrant moving to a Ltd co structure, and half of them are partly owned also.

The whole point of the CMS is allegedly to support children in retaining a decent standard of living. This is in practice not true.


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howdidigethere

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21:22 PM, 14th March 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Contendedted at 10/03/2023 - 09:29
Thanks for your comment. I agree with your analogy in part, BUT, it would be responsible and honourable of someone at the CMS to alert the system to the inequity of the process.

We seem to have succumbed to a "oh that's just the way it is" society. Regardless of the damage. We are talking about driving insolvency here due to a fictional notion of increasing earnings as the mortgage rates go up.

The 20% admin charge, is not in anyway a wrestle to get money from. It is unjust enrichment. It does not cost the CMS any administrative fee to implement a direct pillage from your bank account, their enforcement department is already paid for. There is no justification to take 20% when the process can be automated and taken from you without your consent.

Take a fine, a fixed fee for the hassle and a slap on the wrist maybe, but a 20% charge on all your payments forever?

They also take 4% from the receiving parent in this process, so who is the beneficiary here? The child? Or the CMS?

howdidigethere

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21:24 PM, 14th March 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Beaver at 10/03/2023 - 10:15
I am not 100% sure, but, the figure they take is the taxable sum from your SA calculation. Therefore, any capital gain I would imagine is included.

Good thought about the unrealised roll-over. Worth considering.

howdidigethere

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21:26 PM, 14th March 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Susan Bradley at 11/03/2023 - 13:00
Thank you Susan

howdidigethere

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21:30 PM, 14th March 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Simon M at 07/03/2023 - 13:08
Thanks Simon, it sounds worth a try.

Families Need Fathers were part of a group that attempted to inform .gov on the problem of the CMS and the harms it is doing to children and parents. it is largely causing more harm than good.

Unfortunately, the report from FNF on the efforts was that .gov was not of an appetite to make any changes.

I think this summarises what .gov thinks of the people.

Contendedted

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11:04 AM, 15th March 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by howdidigethere at 14/03/2023 - 21:22Hi. I am not commenting to be argumentative or unsympathetic. Just seeking to add clarity. More than 50% of the workload is to get the non resident parent of whom 10% are women to make payments. The 20% levy is harsh and cruel especially on “can’t pay” parents but “won’t pay” are a stubborn and costly large minority. That costs tax payers money.

Katy Ann

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10:55 AM, 19th March 2023, About 2 years ago

Very unfortunate if the s24 legislation didn’t take into account the CMS implications, but that's hardly the fault of the CMS staff who are legally obliged to apply the law as it’s actually written not as you/they think it should have been written. It certainly doesn’t make them either stupid or jobsworths. You're almost certainly not helping your case by being unpleasant to them. If you think the law needs changing then you'd be better taking it up with your MP as only the Government have the power to change the law.

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