Will Landlords be able to apply for heat pump grants in April 2022?

Reply to the comment left by Beaver at 21/10/2021 - 16:38
Quoted efficiencies for Heat Pumps are roughly 4 kW return for 1 kW input.
But electricity is roughly 14 pence kWh whereas gas is 3 pence kWh
So on this basis, Heat Pumps will cost more to run than an efficient gas boiler by about 15%
The argument for using Heat Pumps is environmental, not cost.
Standing charges also come into play so you might save up to £100 per year if you can have your gas supply entirely disconnected.

The maths is firmly against Heat Pumps even in new-builds unless you also generate your own electricity.

An interesting article today by John Humphrys https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10121865/JOHN-HUMPHRYS-heat-pump-left-cold-Im-hot-bothered-PM.html
Be careful on assumption of 4 fold gain, COP of 3.2 seems more typical if you search “efficiency of ASHP”. Although gas MAY go up more than electricity I personally pay 3.8p per kWh for gas and a blended 18p pkWh for electricity day/night. So that would be a big increase in running costs for me. I have three flats in a listed building, so double glazing / CWI etc is out on those at this time. I am more interested in internal wall insulation in those, and for those with solid walls. That is where development and grants would be more effective.
Digging up concrete floors is a massive cost. So I’d need massive or fan assisted radiators indoors.
Home hydrogen generation is probably a non starter, there are still major problems needed to solved before switching is possible district wide. Export has not been proposed afaik.
For new builds yes, but retro fitting if mains gas is available is rarely viable at this time. I asked an installer - “not financially sensible!” It seems it would be up to 50% more expensive even with PV!

I researched and built 2 eco houses, one was nominated for an LABC award. Heat pumps never made sense to me. The 4:1 heat ratio they quote is over the whole year. In winter they really struggle. I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole. Clearly some senior gov't minister is getting a back hander.

Reply to the comment left by Gillian Schifreen at 24/10/2021 - 18:00
On the "back-hander" thing I used to wonder about the previous set of grants being set up in such a way that you couldn't get a grant unless you installed cavity wall insulation, which I wouldn't touch with a barge pole in the properties I'm interested in.

Sometimes these things are good ideas badly implemented. So my best guess was that whoever set up the previous scheme probably didn't even have a GCSE in physics and understood next to nothing. So he or she went to industry and said "how do I do this" and the insulation industry went "tell them all to fit cavity wall insulation". So I view this as incompetence rather than corruption. Although of course I could be wrong.

So it looks like heat pumps are a non-starter. Unless that is you were able to take the cash and install the heat pumps as supplementary heat perhaps in a property that could have different heating zones.

Reply to the comment left by Beaver at 25/10/2021 - 09:36
I view it as incompetence and corruption. Like that foreign budget spend a few years ago of millions to put a landing strip on an island somewhere, can't remember where. Trouble is no-one realised it was too windy for planes to land on it!!! I bet someone made a few bucks on it though. All ministers should be held legally responsible for their bad decision making, trouble is no-one would want the jobs for the boys.

Reply to the comment left by Dennis Leverett at 25/10/2021 - 09:58
Who knows, maybe both.

The thing is there are lots of things I would consider on my properties that reduce emissions - photovoltaics, ground source if the numbers stacked up and I didn't have to disconnect the gas supply, biomass boilers for example; only if the tenants wanted it of course. But I wouldn't consider cavity wall insulation.

Even if you get a comment like "...the new cavity wall insulation doesn't cause problems like the old systems" you think "..how do you know if it's new?" It's like when those people come and tell you "....I've got this new roofing system and it lasts 30 years..."

What they mean is we did a few tests and we predicted it might last 30 years. And then you end up with a Grenfell disaster with local government, central government, assessors and testing agencies all blaming each other. That's what's happening now with the old CWI systems. All the various agencies blame each other and you are still left with the problem.

No idea where these will be going in my Victorian building of 12 small flats that's in a conservation area, the only space I have available is the combi cupboard where my current boiler is so no idea how this is going to work

Reply to the comment left by Richard P at 25/10/2021 - 16:20
Does your victorian building of 12 small flats in a conservation area have slates on a south-facing roof? And if so could slate-appearance photovoltaic tiles on this south-facing roof fit in and provide renewable power? And could the roof itself also benefit from more insulation? Also, some conservation areas will now permit custom sash windows with high performance double glazing units in them. Could your victorian terrace benefit from higher performance windows? Could your victorian terrace also have zoned heating areas (these are permitted on some EPC certificates as a possible upgrade)?

Reply to the comment left by Beaver at 22/10/2021 - 11:33
in some of my properties have a gas boilers. These are in flats with no change of ground source pumps as there is no outside space. Air source are going to be an issue as the buildings are listed and terraced. The walls are solid walls also.
In other flats I have no gas supply - again solid walls, listed and terraced.
As far as I am aware due to Grade 2 listing external (and possible internal) insulation is not going to be viable and neither is solar panels on the roof, photovoltaic panels, a bloody wind turbine or anything else!
So, I can sit out out, apply for exemption and cross my fingers. Or do I wait and then issue eviction notices to tenants as a direct result of not being able to achieve any chance of a C rating?
That will be 11 adults and 7 kids on the street then!

Reply to the comment left by Beaver at 25/10/2021 - 16:25DG windows of any kind don't really tip the balance when it comes to the EPC tick box stupidity. A lot of outlay for minimal points betterment. Key is on insulation to then get the other heating forms (other than gas) put in. But as everyone knows if the place is not insulated properly to start with, ANY new system is going to be pointless as wont achieve its full potential AND be more costly to run for the tenant.