West Bromwich Building Society Tracker Margins Legal Action

Why not take a break from all of this & await Counsels Opinion nothing much can happen till then, give Mark a well earned rest. Then come back fighting.

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "28/10/2013 - 12:09":

Mark

I for 1 am very glad you did. I suspect I would not have had the gumption to organise the rest of us BUT I WILL push behind you for all I am worth. You are NOT alone and we (and I am guessing that the only people who don't are employed by WBBS) all appreciate the hard work you put in!!

Reply to the comment left by "Dan Smith" at "28/10/2013 - 13:11":

Thanks Dan

I think we all need to sit back for a while now. Still encourage others to come on board, still keep hassling WB , TV , Newspapers and our MPs but leave Mark and Justin to gather their thoughts and strength .

There will no doubt be others that are watching that will join. Some may think they can go alone complain to WB and they will be excluded. That's not likely to happen. When they realise this they may well chip in. Others may well be having to find the funds to contribute.

When people see those letters telling them what they will have to pay in December that will be a reality check for many and that will make them think £240 peer mortgage isn't that much.

But I think the biggest thing will be in a few weeks time when Counsels opinion is publicised on this site. If they say we have no chance then we will get a proportion of our money back . If , and lets be honest , we think they will , they say we have a fighting chance then many of those looking in will surely contribute. I suspect Mark and Justin will have some conversation with WB and Counsel and maybe a time limit will be put on people to get on board.

I think your idea of a 250 club might be a good one . Putting in £1000 wouldn't be a problem for most. But I suspect that there will be more than 250. I would be amazed if we don't quickly hit 350 when opinion is publicised, possibly more.

Then it will be a decision which way we go. I would love to take them to Court. Even if it took two years plus , but if we are advised to accept an offer of guaranteed no additional increases and West Brom stick to their agreement we have to go with that.

I for one will contribute against other lenders who try this on. I have a wide variety of lenders in my portfolio or those I have an association with so I know I will be effected again. Hence I would prefer to settle this once and for all. But if we don't, I will be better off and can afford to fight again another day. This time with even more confidence in the effort knowing we had won before . We will have a tried and tested method and platform to work from next time.

We might have to win a dozen battles to win the war , but if so, so beit .

For now I am sitting back, emailing Watchdog every week. Chasing my MP, chasing the FOS sending as many letters to WB as possible , encouraging others to come on board and waiting from instruction from Mark and Justin with the template letters to send to whoever they see fit

I think we should all do same. Keep posting to show an interest and share our thoughts but leave Justin and Mark alone. Justin because he costs £250 per hour and Mark because we may need him to set this up again next time.

Dean

Reply to the comment left by "Dean Turner" at "28/10/2013 - 14:16":

Well said Dean:-)

Reply to the comment left by "Dean Turner" at "28/10/2013 - 14:16":

I concur with your "sit back and wait for now" view Dean while we all should actively continue to encourage further support by any means.

Am I right in thinking that if an court of court settlement were to be the recommended or suggested outcome in weeks/months to come, whatever we might feel about it, it would still represent a VICTORY of sorts? Since if WBBS think - perversely and wrongly - that they would win a court case and the FOS will find in their favour they would obviously not countenance such action. Thus their agreeing to settle would be an admission of their weak position at least. While confidentiality/bound to keep quiet agreement might accompany such a settlement I am sure news could/would "leak out" and other lenders would be thus deterred from trying it on later.

Personally I shall be cancelling my DD agreement with WB come December and continue paying them at old rate by SO. I shall write explaining that in the extremely unlikely event of them winning in court and the FOS finding for them I shall pay what's owing then.

This issue was covered in posts awhile back when I sought assurance it would not harm the class action. Justin said it would not. I don't care a damn about them demanding immediate payment of the mortgage in full or spiteful trashing of my credit rating. I shall enjoy confronting them on both issues as a side show and knowing they have NOT got the benefit of having my money.

Reply to the comment left by "Richard Adams" at "28/10/2013 - 14:56":

I think if you do not pay the full amount you may find that you have contravened the contract and you are moved to their variable rate. Then you will have another battle to fight. Ironic I know but we will be paying the new rate. That way I am hoping not just for my money back but interest at a commercial rate +2% and some form of compensation . I think this could actually be a good investment.

Don't give them the satisfaction of having you for something else.

Reply to the comment left by "Dean Turner" at "28/10/2013 - 14:16":

I agree with your approach Dean. Personally I have had no contact with Justin or Mark to date and will continue in this fashion.

Upon reflection I think it would be better to have a time frame to limit involvement. Perhaps up to two weeks after Counsel's favourable opinion? In this way the WB could see that the Class Action was not something that would wander, wither and then die.

The encouragement for participation would be to contribute knowing that there was "no way onto the bus" after a certain time. If the chosen route was an "Out of Court Settlement" for all named members only they would benefit and not those standing on the sidelines.

I, for one, would be perfectly happy to get a complete reversal ( plus costs to date) of the planned rise never knowing why such a decision was made. Therefore no chance of "precedent" being set.

As a note I understand that our contributions of £240 per mortgage actually equates to £200 to Justin and £40 VAT to fund the politicians/regulators who have so spectacularly failed to protect/support us and the credibility of the British financial sector.

Reply to the comment left by "Dean Turner" at "28/10/2013 - 15:03":

Thanks for the warning Dean, but like i said this topic was covered fairly extensively in the forum early October. Justin said it would not compromise the class action.

A few members warned against not paying the new monthly amount come December because of credit rating issues but NOBODY suggested not doing so on grounds you highlight??

As for my contravening WBBS contract surely that is what our class action is all about, them doing precisely that. I shall make clear in covering letter that I am not seeking to evade paying them at all. and will happily pay them arrears should the court etc decide they are entitled to make me pay more.

I think it may be time for a bit of a reality check.

How would a mutual building society justify the following settlement?

£200 average monthly increase in payments (estimated)

X 12 to annualise

X an average of 18 years for contracts to run (estimated)

X 171 mortgages affected so far (correct as of 25/10/2013 but this figure should rise significantly)

= £7,387,200 (seven million, three hundred and eighty seven thousand, 200 pounds)

This would have to be signed off by their Directors and disclosed in their accounts.

It would only take one person to raise a complaint at an EGM or AGM which Press were invited to attend and the whole can of worms would be re-opened.

My conclusion is that West Brom CANNOT settle on this basis, they can't even consider it as a realistic option.

The ONLY course of action for our group is to raise the funds to litigate - minimum £100,000.

If West Brom back-track in the meantime then we have won!

Isn't that what we all signed up for?

My message to those who signed up for a different reason is that you should not have signed up. This campaign was never intended to be a fund for speculators. If you did sign up as a speculator then please own up now or forever hold your peace.

The reasons I started this campaign are very simple:-

1) I believe the actions of West Brom are immoral

2) I believe the actions of West Brom are unlawful, i.e. they have no legal grounds to increase their tracker rate margins

3) I have no wish to subsidise other areas of the West Bromwich Building Society business model

4) I am fearful of other lenders following suit if West Brom are allowed to get away with this

On these grounds we have raised more than enough money to cover the initial legal work and the costs of obtaining Counsels opinion. In fact, after taking these costs out of the funds raised to date we are 25% towards our minimum target fund raising to commence litigation. Now I don't know about you but if Counsels opinion is that we have a VERY strong case I would definitely consider paying a lot more than I've paid already to take this all the way. £240 a case is a tiny fraction of what we all stand to lose, not just in terms of this lender but possibly others too.

Frankly, I don't give two hoots about freeloaders so long as we win. However, if everybody is a freeeloader then everybody loses, save for those of us who are in a position to repay our West Brom Mortgages.

The reason I have raised the point of paying more is that a possibility exists that no other borrowers will pay up. Of course that's a remote possibility but we must start thinking about what will happen if we don't reach our targets.

I still believe that we can reach the full £100,000 without any of us having to pay any more money. However, that is highly dependent upon existing named claimants persuading others to sign up and pay up.

In a months time we will have Counsels opinion. These are the scenario's I have considered.

1) Worst case scenario is that we will be advised that we do not have a case. If that happens, costs to date will be taken from the funds raised and we will all get a refund pro-rata.

2) We are advised that we have a good case but we do not have enough money in the pot to fight it. We will then have to set a closing date for the fund and have a vote amongst members on how much they are prepared to pay if necessary. I suggest a pledge of up to one years worth of savings because if we start trying to set amounts we could be going back and forth forever more if people decide they are are in at one level and out at another. If we still don't have enough money pledged at the end of such an exercise then it's possibly game over, i.e. contributions are refunded net of expenses to all named borrowers.

3) We have enough money in the pot and counsels opinion is that we should fight.

I have thought long and hard this weekend about whether I should influence this campaign and if so the basis of doing so.

I have made my decision .........

I will NOT settle on any basis.

I will continue to write whatever I wish and provide whatever advice I wish on this forum. I will also continue to optimise this website based on every conceivable keyword phrase that a person looking for information on this subject could type into Google. This takes time but there are already hundreds of parameters which come up as number one in search results.

With your support, financial and otherwise I will continue to promote the objectives I set out to achieve.

I respectfully suggest that if anybody has different motives they back out as soon as we receive Counsels opinion. This is because my refusal to settle for anything other than an outright win will be in direct conflict with you.

I appreciate that my stance on this will disappoint a few people but it is impossible to please all of the people all of the time.

In my opinion, we are more likely to raise the required funds on this basis.

As the founder of this campaign I believe I have a moral duty to do what is right for those who support the values upon which I started this campaign in the first place. My promise to all who support these values is that I will not sell out on you at any price. I will continue to fight this injustice and I will fight any other lender who tries to follow suit.

Who's with me?
.

Reply to the comment left by "Dan Smith" at "28/10/2013 - 15:17":

I think it will get to a stage where a limit of either time or numbers will be put on it especially if there is a chance it will only assist paid up members. Otherwise it will be open for people to sit and wait . We really want a complete turn around for everyone and to put others off from trying this on. But if it has to be a group benefit only then the only people to feel for would be those who have not been able to find the Action Group . Anyone else will have had ample opportunity to join. There will always be some who want to do things on the cheap , but personally I feel that numbers and funds will rise. Also I don't think WB will cave without a Court battle and to some extent I hope they don't. I would like to see them be responsible for bringing the Society down and losing their jobs and having this black mark on their CV. What they are doing is wrong , unethical and immoral . It shouldn't be covered up with an out of Court settlement so they can go away still picking up an millions per annum and increased bonuses. I want them to suffer as they would have us suffer before them !

If you placed a bet with a British Bookmaker and that bet looked like paying out a lot of money , no bookmaker would amend the odds ever. So you can trust your bookmaker above your banker. That should never be right. Its greed, pure and simple and the total lack of backbone a character to hold your hands up and say, we made a mistake we need to suffer the consequences . The consequences being making less profit and taking less bonuses. These low rates wont last for ever. Another 12 months and they will gradually rise . If I was involved with this decision I would rather resign and walk away than be tarnished with this . If this falls flat for them I think they will struggle to get positions elsewhere within the Financial Sector . At least I hope so .