West Bromwich Building Society Tracker Margins Legal Action

Reply to the comment left by "Dean " at "21/11/2013 - 14:34":

I take your point Dean but if people are considering making a substantial additional pledge there has to be a return in doing so somewhere down the line for them, otherwise any additional pledges people offer will be dead money.

I will see how I feel when we get the the final version of Counsels opinion and how much we have raised by then. If we already have funds and pledges over the target level then the 48 hour notice period is likely to be a "fait acommpli". I'm not going to make any commitments either way at this stage, there are too many variables. The message is out there for all "fence sitters" though, i.e. you have an opportunity to get in now for £240 per mortgage, no guarantees if or when that figure will increase so don't take a chance, GET IN NOW!

PS - I have had a discussion with somebody who is considering a pledge of £50,000 based on the proposal I outlined earlier today. He believes we will be inundated with people wanting to jump on the bandwagon when the Court papers are served and based on my earlier proposals he could stand to make a very good return on his investment. If he's right, that would mean that all of us who have paid up so far may get a full refund of our payments to date plus a return. I like that idea and he may well be right. Based on a loading of £260 per case the numbers would only need to double for all the initial contributors to get a full refund and a return. He reckons we could see a few thousand join in!

Having said all of that, let's keep our feet on the ground until we see the colour of his money. He has got me thinking though, and I suspect this angle will interest a few others reading this post too 🙂
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Reply to the comment left by "Concerned Landlord" at "21/11/2013 - 13:41":

Hi Concerned Landlord and others

It may be that there are others like me that have only recently received the 2% letter and are just getting to grips with this. It looks like a lot of you guys have been aware of this for a long time and have had time to write your complaint letter, receive a response, get your documentation etc.. I can see how from your point of view those that have not paid up look like they are dragging their feet, whereas it may just be that you are way ahead of some of us. It may be useful for newcomers like me if there was one simple document that explained who all the people are that are dealing with this & what the brief history of the group is. It can get very confusing when you are going through over 150 pages of peoples comments to get an idea of who is who and what is going on.

I only found this group this week & I only got my letter off today & need to get all my documentation etc.

There must be many more like me that got their letters much later & even more that have yet to hear about this group.

I will be putting my money into the pot, but need to assure myself about this group and who is handling the case, what is the lawyer holding the money etc. Is there anywhere that makes clear the terms under which I would be paying any money into the Client Account? Such a document would be very useful.

Thanks to whoever those are that are spearheading this. Is is greatly appreciated.

Reply to the comment left by "Helen Landlord" at "21/11/2013 - 14:43":

It's Hobsons choice I'm afraid, the other version simply isn't an option any longer for the issues I've already raised.
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Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "21/11/2013 - 14:44":

Sounds good. Im not really sure how that would work but if we get this overturned I am more than happy. If we get a return as well all the better.

Reply to the comment left by "ashley nissim" at "21/11/2013 - 14:44":

Ashley the do to list is your best start.

You can not read through the whole thread go for say the last 2 weeks or so.

Search The Law Department. The money goes to a solicitors client account . You have to decide yourself whether this is genuine or a lot of people have set up a massive scam . If they have , I am down my share of £1680 .

Where did you hear about us please ?

Reply to the comment left by "Dean " at "21/11/2013 - 15:10":

I was getting ready to write a letter of complaint to West Brom & put something like "west bromwich building society interest rate increase" into google to see what would come up. This led me to a Telegraph article that mentioned the group.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/10381130/Watchdog-to-probe-tracker-mortgage-rate-rises.html

Reply to the comment left by "ashley nissim" at "21/11/2013 - 14:44":

Hi Ashley

Welcome to the group and thank you for your questions. It's obviously impossible to maintain a short summary when we are getting 50+ new comments every day and new events are constantly unfolding. At some point you may decide to read the entire thread but the starting point is the summary article at the top of this discussion. That certainly answers all the questions you have raised so far and when you complete the Class Action Expression of Interest form you will receive automated email responses containing instruction from myself and the groups appointed solicitor, Justin Selig. Work you way through the To-do list and you will soon be up to speed.
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Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "21/11/2013 - 14:22":

Hi Mark,

I know I touched upon this before in my email to you and Justin but if you could refer the barrister to Tandrin Aviation Holdings Ltd v Aero Toy Store LLC [2010] EWHC 40 (Comm) just for his views on whether the principle in Tandrin Aviation would apply I would be most grateful. I hope I'm not treading on any toes and the barrister may well say that in Tandrin Aviation the issue involved "force majeure" which isn't the same as the contractual term in the present matter but there was an important principle affirmed in Tandrin Aviation that extreme economic circumstances or the tightening of credit markets do not give rise to force majeure and the defendant in that case could not avoid liability for breach.

So what is force majeure? There's no definition of force majeure in English law but in French it literally means "superior strength" and in law usually relates to unforeseeable circumstances that prevent someone from fulfilling a contract.

It is also worth noting that turbulence in or even the collapse of the economy is unlikely to constitute an event of force majeure. Several English cases have upheld this principle, including Thames Valley Power Limited v Total Gas & Power Limited [2006] 1 Lloyd's Rep 441. It is also well established in English law that a change in economic, financial or market circumstances damaging the profitability or performance of a contract will not usually amount to a force majeure event or to frustration at common law (Thames Valley Power v Total Gas and Power)

If anybody else wants to do a little legal research, here's a couple of articles in respect of these cases.

http://www.olswang.com/articles/2010/04/the-credit-crunch-a-force-majeure-event-tandrin-aviation-holdings-ltd-v-aero-toy-store-llc-2010-ewhc-40-comm/

http://www.ashurst.com/publication-item.aspx?id_Content=5015

I am mindful of the fact that this forum shouldn't become bogged down in legalese and these things are probably best left to the lawyers but I really do think we have a very strong case. I trust that any West Bromwich stoolies and stooges reading this post will feel the same way about the merits of our case.

There was mention of the movie Erin Brockovich earlier to illustrate just how powerful a class action can be. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for the moment and advise you all to also watch A Civil Action starring John Travolta (rather than the movie starring Keanu Reeves and a rather devilish Al Pacino). One of the things A Civil Action made clear is that it is often the party with the deepest pockets that wins and the party that runs out of money to continue the fight that loses. So c'mon people, dig deep into those pockets of yours and support this class action by becoming fully paid up members. I don't know about you, but me, personally, I hate to lose!

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "21/11/2013 - 12:33":

I have just spoken to someone I know very well who is in a very senior position inside a UK Buy to Let/Commercial Lender and provided the facts as we know them of this saga,

Off the record, they have stated:

I) They have NEVER known of any 'performing loan' ever being called in. It was almost treated as absurdity that a lender would/could even consider trying to do this. Let alone trying to call in this number of loans.

2) As WBBS are part of the funding lending initiative, their funding costs for 'residential' mortgages has only reduced in the last few years. As The WBBS do not currently offer BTL mortgages, how then have their funding costs increased ?

3) What they believe has happened is that the Off balance Sheet Deal they did to originate our mortgages (again this was a securitised deal and the holder of the mortgages is not West Brom Per Se, but the SPV they set up) would have had a 5 year fixed rate deal. As my mortgage was originated in 2008, this timings works nicely in the fact that their initial 5 year Fixed Rate Deal has expired in 2013 and they need to Offset this Tranche of Monies elsewhere, hence our rate Hike offsets the new funding they are taking out upon the initial 5 year expiry.

4) Talking through the razer sharp targeting of Multiple BTL landlords, they mentioned that it seems the most obvious defence is Breach of Good Faith, covering any contract (Consumer or Commercial) and also Misrepresentation.

They picked up the sentence that WBBS noted in the initial Rate Hike Letter I received dated September 13, "WE HAVE A DUTY TO MANAGE OUR BUSINESS PRUDENTLY IN ALL MARKET CONDITIONS. THE T&C'S OF YOUR BTL MORTGAGE WERE DESIGNED TO ENSURE THAT WE COULD CARRY OUT THIS DUTY, HENCE OUR RIGHT TO MAKE THIS CHANGE". So, if this was intentional from a design point of view, then they have misrepresented and clearly breached Good Faith by doing their very best to market the product in a completely opposite way and did their very best to not clearly make this known or referred to from the outset.

Reply to the comment left by "ashley nissim" at "21/11/2013 - 15:22":

Hi Ashley

Googling WBBS interest rate hike was how I found Property118. Many others likewise. You are here now and welcome. We are a straight up 100% group focused on taking WBBS to task to protect our own financial positions and in giving them a bloody nose deterring other lenders from trying anything similarly underhand. Strength in numbers.
You won't regret being part of what we are doing.