West Bromwich Building Society Tracker Margins Legal Action

Reply to the comment left by "Dean Turner" at "20/11/2013 - 11:22":

I get a warm feeling we are moving forward every day and will be armed wit sufficient cash to go all the way judging by members' willingness to pay more if required. Meanwhile new folk are coming steadily on board. Isn't life grand?

However speculating on which way WBBS may jump I humbly suggest is a slightly fruitless exercise. Sigmund Freud might be able to say what the average chap will do in a given situation provided he has a normal mindset. Not with WBBS though. How can anyone forecast what an unscrupulous, dishonest, opportunistic, contemptuous and thoroughly nasty bunch of people will do faced with the opposition they never expected to encounter? Can a shrink really say for sure what a cornered rat will do, or a madman for that matter? I submit we can't forecast either?

I hope to have gained forthcoming exposure of our campaign in the Currency Wire Newsletter. A small organ read by customers of Currency Wire.

While writing to all and sundry as we already have, would approaching the BofE be a good idea? Maybe someone has already done so? I'll do it if it is deemed a good wheeze.

I repeat a previous post about attending the Landlord & Letting Show on 27 Nov. Anyone up for joining me there on a recruiting drive?

http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail?type=&code=cotn%3AWBS.L&it=le&display=discussion

people on here seem to be Pi$$ed as well. I will add comment re property118

Reply to the comment left by "Annette Stone" at "20/11/2013 - 12:14":

I think you need to read my post again.

I have not suggested WB pay anyone off . You misunderstand how this would work. There would be no payment to anyone. Each registered account would be withdrawn from the increase. They have already not included account numbers that begin with 9.

They could very easily re address those account numbers with a 9. There would be no monetary amount in the accounts . The accounts would show a reduced interest income from the anticipated £15m or so to £14.5m or so.

I am not asking the Directors of WB to do this. I am saying they might. I am saying if I were in their position and my job and the survival of the Society depended upon it I would look to do that ,. I am not saying it could be done , but if I were them I would try. Confidential agreements are done all the time. There are massive penalties for breaking them.

We are not talking a few pounds here, WB stand to increase their income by millions. They are relying on not enough people clubbing together to bring a meaningful action. There are supposed to be 6700 affected borrowers. We have a couple of hundred who have put their money into the pot .Less than 3% are trying to right a wrong while 97% stand by and wait.

The best result is a win in Court. The worst is a loss.No one from either side really knows what will happen.

You do not have any WB mortgages. If you did and you had the chance to save £150 per month per mortgage and the offer was there on the table.

1 Would you take it and ensure you were alright as far as WB loans were concerned?

2 Turn it down and go to Court without the certainty of knowing the outcome , probably have to put more money in , while 97% watch on hoping you win?

If you were part of the 97% now what would you do now?

We all want it to be over and go back to the terms we all signed up for. If it doesn't go to Court and another bank or BS do the same again, everyone affected this time that is affected next time will be back on here.

If they were part of this Class Action they will sign up again if they had a confidential agreement with WB, if they were part of the 97% who never knew but it all went quiet they would sign up next time.

Mark as made his position very clear . I do not have a problem with that I hope he gets what he wants. But if you think that an agreement is not in the minds of WB or wont be if we get closer then I think you are very much mistaken.

I am just glad I have sent in my documents to Justin. I am part of the 3% so I have done everything I can and more. My main concern is mine and my families well being. I can not be responsible for anyone else nor will I lose any sleep over anyone who had the opportunity to join but didn't.

I do feel for those who are stranded and do not know about this site. Like many on here I have spent hours and hours writing letters and sending emails to as many people as possible to get the word out there but unfortunately we do not appear to have reached everyone. I just hope that everyone we have reached is on board and we can get more.

Dean

Reply to the comment left by "Richard Adams" at "20/11/2013 - 12:29":

Richard I have written to the BoE . Emailed everyone of 650 MPs, the Police, Serious Crime. My MP in every area I have a property. Radio , TV every main line newspaper. The PM , Deputy PM. Chancellor. Opposition leader and shadow this and that .ASA. DTI,NLA, CAB

As for my thoughts on the WB directors , who knows.but as you say they are capable of anything.

However, are you happy you have sent in your documents or would you prefer to have kept your money in the bank and watch on in hope ?

Dean

Sent our letter yesterday to Paul Field Director of Mortgage Operations telling him where he could stick his pathetic rate reduction from 2% to 1.9%. Looks like we will be sending yet another letter today as we have received a marketing letter from them offering home insurance, we think we know where they can stick this also. This proves that not only are they a dishonest bunch they are also stupid with no internal communication.

Reply to the comment left by "Annette Stone" at "20/11/2013 - 12:14":

Annette you are an absolutely 100% brick for contributing as a non WBBS affected borrower. As one of the affected ones I greatly appreciate the help you are giving me that will assist in restoring my personal fortunes. Good on you. You are putting WBBS borrowers who remain sitting on the fence to shame.

I fully see your point though about not merely effecting a result for WBBS borrowers alone through a settlement. I'd feel the same in your shoes. As I just posted though whether you are right or wrong about whether WBBS will offer a settlement or not is for the birds for the present. From other posts it would seem if we had a show of hands right now whether they will or not the result would be 50/50.

Let's wait and see. If they don't then your concern is sorted. If they do, take comfort from it being an action that simply MUST be a gift from the Gods to our legal team. Such an offer would represent an admission that they know they may well lose the case.

To be fair to Dean who is a top member of Property118 I think he is merely saying that in the extremely unlikely event of our not having enough money to fight the case and a settlement offer was made, then we might be foolish to discount it. He is right. With no prospect of gaining anything in court because we cannot be there would leave no alternative. But this won't happen I'm sure.

I am utterly strapped for cash right now and a settlement offer would sorely tempt me I freely admit, but I have committed to going with the flow of the group which is to take the case to court. I'll be sticking by that.

Therefore don't worry and thanks again for being on the team.

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "20/11/2013 - 07:20":

I left a comment last night mentioning this forum and there have been a few others, including the expected ones from WBBS sympathisers (employees?). Times online is only accessible to subscribers so exposure will be limited but the printed version is on the right lines although the media as a whole seem to have fallen for the myth propagated by the lenders that the increases are permitted by the contract conditions. The article also confirms what we suspected, that other lenders are contemplating similar moves. All the more reason to stand firm in the resolve to get a clear judicial ruling confirming that the increases are in breach of contract.

Reply to the comment left by "Richard Adams" at "20/11/2013 - 12:29":

Hi Richard,

I wrote to the Mark Carney at the BofE at the outset of this along with the letters to my MP etc - basically the BofE just said the same thing re commercial decisions for lenders etc etc

I also sent my letter off directly to Sajid Javid MP at the Treasury today using your template - thanks for that

Reply to the comment left by "Dean Turner" at "20/11/2013 - 13:04":

What did the BofE reply Dean? I'll give it a shot also. If I can pick up on any negativity in their reply to you it might help?

I am deliriously happy to have sent my docs and payment to Justin. Sitting on the sidelines was not an option for me.

Dean. I note your comments and because I feel passionately about this I was one of the first people to offer ANY funds even though I do not have any wbbs mortgages. I have also committed to providing further funds if this becomes necessary to reach the target.

My comments stand. There is a very great difference between one person entering into a non disclosure agreement where there is a "pay off" concerned irrespectively on what delicate term is used to describe it and where there may be hundreds if not thousands of affected people

I think your suggestion that they would just alter the first digit 8 to an 9 and thereby exclude the mortgages of each of the people affected by the rate rise so far is a bit simplistic. If they tried to do this and presumably notified all those affected that their mortgages would not be going up. If everyone did what you seem to think is okay and they accepted this deal in return for withdrawing from the campaign that would not be an end to the issue. I am quite sure people would notice if you stopped blogging on the subject and that would be picked up very quickly by others who were left with the original first digit indicating that they had to pay the increase. They could then continue with the campaign (using the funds already contributed) and the issue would continue until everyone who wanted to be put back on their original tracker was included. This campaign cannot help anyone who did not realise this was a possibility or did not care about the increase.

That's why what people are doing to raise awareness of this campaign is so important and if it can be confirmed that the issue of the 8 and 9 numbers is true then as much publicity has possible has to be given to that fact so more people are attracted to what is being done here

That is one tack of the campaign and it may be all that is needed but I feel that ultimately the issue will need to be settled in Court, if only to put off other lenders who would want to try this on. Even if the wbbs issue was sorted out I sincerely hope that no-one who had contributed funds to this campaign would ask for them back until everyone who had been targeted had their mortgages returned to the original agreed tracker and if necessary, some kind of arrangement was made with Justin and Mark whereby it was publicly known that there was a fighting fund available to challenge this behaviour on the part of banks and building societies unless and until the FCA step in and ensure it cannot happen which is the main thrust of the Times article today

On a personal level I entirely understand your attitude of wishing to protect your own interests but I think this is a bit short sighted. Do I think I would walk away from something which could potentially damage every person in the country and could mean that banks and building societies (and maybe insurance companies, pension firms, employers and everyone else involved in any sort of financial transaction) could do anything they wanted without fear of any regulatory comeback?

I hope not because sometimes if people don't stand up and be counted terrible things happen.

We are actually both on the same side on this but every approach has its advantages.