Utility companies and legal services – debt paid?

Reply to the comment left by GlanACC at 11/11/2023 - 08:18
There is something not quite right with one party (the landlord in this case) giving verbal instructions to a third party (a utility company), who then record that information in good faith without any supporting evidence (spelling mistakes of complicated names included). And the the third part act on this unevidenced information , and in the case of a shared house of tenants, that single phone call can make that tenant liable for an enormous bill which may have been created by previous tenants. The utility company will hound this poor tenant for the rest of their lives until they pay. I say the tenant (of a shared house) should contact the utility company, supply evidence of a tenancy if they wish but only after the utility company have explained the implications of them registering their names. I appreciate this will gridlock the system, but this is the only way to ilevel the playing field to stop landlords doing unpaid work for hankless utility companies.

Reply to the comment left by david.... (not Goliath) at 11/11/2023 - 09:24
In my case it was not an HMO but a number of tennants that left with no forwarding address. I needed to transfer the account into my name. Some utility companies use common sense, most use a script and a computer that says NO

To answer the actual question, the utility company may well have sold the debt to a debt collection agency, and the term they use is 'assigned'. In this case the debt is no longer with the utility company, but is indeed now with the debt collection agency, and it is them that have to be paid. If you pay the original utility company, the debt collection company may well still take you to court.
However, they buy these debts cheap, and may well not have enough evidence that you are responsible for the amount in question for example if energy provider was changed at some point and debt carried over from one supplier to another.
They will initially resist any offer you make unless it is for the entire amount, and you get into a game of bluff, with you hoping they haven't got the paperwork to prove the debt, and them hoping you will just pay up to avoid the court fees and possible CCJ against you.
If you want an easy life then pay the debt collection company. If you are retired and enjoy a good fight, call their bluff. But don't admit to anything in any correspondence with them. Simply ask them to demonstrate why they think that you owe them money, and how they have arrived at their figure. Including the meter readings with dates, as without those they can't prove anything. It's not your responsibility to provide them with meter readings.

Reply to the comment left by Jessie Jones at 11/11/2023 - 20:20
I like that summary from 'Jessie Jones' and will add that in my view the only authority to enforce the recovery of a debt is a bailiff. They do this following a court hearing in which an alleged debt changes status to a 'proven debt', Then, if you do not pay this proven debt immediately after the hearing (ignore so called 30 days grace), then yes, any further 'collection' debts are also legally enforceable.

Just for the sport, I played cat and mouse with a bailiff on a 'proceedurally incorrect' CCJ awarded against me. (Bailiffs can't take your goods away if you dont let them in your house!). This bit of sport turned a £700 debt into a £1500 debt, but was worth every penny. The bailiff represented his profession well and has since agreed to run a webinar for a landlord group I co-ordinate.

All alleged debts are just that, 'alleged'. I dont pay alleged debts or the additional charges loaded onto them. The document to watch out for is the 'Letter before Action'. This is serious and must be responded to in the required time.

After you receive your LBA, you have to put in your defense or you will get a 'judgement by default' against you. Always tick the box for mediation, you get extra brownie points for that, but you must be confident in your defence and/or be a good liar, as you may end up in court.

I've just called the bluff of a parking company who over 18 months, turned the 'alleged' none payment of a 80p parking charge into a £225 court summons. We went through mediation but they chickend out before the hearing. I'm not saying here whether or not I forgot to pay the original 80p, but I can say they certainly failed to prove that I did.

Anybody can allege that a debt is owed to them by you, but until the party who alleges the debt has been to court and the debt is proven, it remains an alleged debt. Rule No.16, never pay alleged debts or the spurious charges added onto them.

An in case anybody is wondering, no I'm not retired but I do enjoy a good fight.

Reply to the comment left by david.... (not Goliath) at 12/11/2023 - 08:29I used to work in Germany where there is a day called Rosen Montag. It is almost required for the office girls to come round the building and cut your tie off and hang it on their desk. I wasn't aware of this (and wondered why most of the men were wearing cardboard ties on that day). Anyway, I was a contractor flying in and out of Germany every week and was paying my tax in the UK so I tried to claim for the tie (worth about £24.00) as a genuine business expense. HMRC queried it and we had an exchange of letters over a 4 year period culminating in a visit (in the UK) from an HMRC 'inspector' who made a final ruling of not admissable. It was a bit of sport and god knows how much it cost HMRC.

Reply to the comment left by GlanACC at 12/11/2023 - 09:21
But did you hear the case of a female barrister who tried to claim for her gown and wig as a legitimate business expense. She told the court she came to and from work in her in 'normal' clothes and chaged into her 'court' clothes. She argued the expenses was incurred wholley and
exclusively for the purpose of her carrying out her business. She lost. It went to the Appeal Court and she lost again.

Reply to the comment left by david.... (not Goliath) at 11/11/2023 - 09:24
I think we will have to agree to differ.

As a landlord and agent for over 30 years, I always make sure that utility companies have the correct information. We get very few issues and tenants and landlords get billed correctly.

Not sure why you think landlords are doing unpaid work for utility companies; it just seems like good business practice to me. It's part of the service we offer to landlords and tenants with a minimal time take.

Reply to the comment left by Graham Bowcock at 12/11/2023 - 15:59
Experience is a good guide, I will agree with you that when both parties (one party being self-managing landlords, or managing agents, the other party being the utility company) act in accordance to the law, general deemed terms and conditions and 'proven' custom and paractice, then things run smoothly.

Likewise, for the past 32 years, things have worked well for me with very few issues.

But the situation I found myself in with an apparent mis-use of the implication of deemed contract on me is so out of the normal practice and my understanding, that I feel it has to be challenged.

Reply to the comment left by david.... (not Goliath) at 12/11/2023 - 17:31
Eon once sent out the debt collectors for one of my properties addressed to 'the occupier', the bailiff contacted me as they had traced the property ownership to my company. I had no problem proving I didn't live there (cos it was a company owned property) and good luck in finding 'the occupier' as it was a scumbag lady and her young daughter on benefits who did a disapearing act. I was quite happy to give the bailiff her name and also contact details for her mother (can do this as it was now a legal 'request')