Tenants in situ – Previous landlord does not have Gas/Electric/DPS?

Tenants in situ – Previous landlord does not have Gas/Electric/DPS?

9:54 AM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago 76

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Hi All, Just a bit of advice please. I am in the process of purchasing my first buy to let and was expecting the property empty on completion.

The agent has now come back and stated that the property is tenanted. The tenants want to stay and the seller wants to sell the property with the tenants as he is in a hurry.

I have spoken to the seller who has advised that he was a first time landlord himself and the tenants were friends of a friend and he has not had any issues with them.

He advised that he got them to sign a generic AST in 2019 but did not know about the Gas Certificates/electric certificates or DPS. He does not have these but will get them done. He did take a deposit of them years ago.

Should I still continue and purchase the property?

Is there anything that can be done to rectify the situation or should just walk away?

Thanks,

Maz


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Simon M

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15:39 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

There are so many alarm bells ringing. This is high risk for a first-time landlord and it will be easier to lose money than to make it on this, which is why so many advise you to walk away.

If you still think it's worth buying, re-visit your financial plan and put a cost against all these risks (Penalty for non-service of documents, repairs for compliance, lack of maintenance, future EPC compliance etc.) and add a contingency for those you don't yet know about.

How much will it sell for if it was empty? That tells you the discount. Does it more than cover the costs by enough and will the rent still pay sufficient return? Ask yourself if you have the time and ability to find money out of this when the seller can't.

Reluctant Landlord

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16:06 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

AVOID! If seller wants a quick sale - then there is a reason.... and with a tenant in situ after the promise of vacant possession...then that says it all!

Unless you have a sh*$ hot solicitor that has the time (and understanding of all aspects of LL legislation in particular) to term a contact with the seller to get you out of every nightmare scenario then I'd turn your heels!

Even if you get over any paperwork/legal issues you might still open a can of worms later.

As a newbie....you need a positive first experience of tenants, or you will be scarred for life!

Kate Mellor

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16:41 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 23/02/2023 - 15:25
My understanding is that a S21 can't be served within the first four months of the ORIGINAL tenancy. This is the wording used by Shelter on their website. A new tenancy would not be the original tenancy.

Shelter's website also states that a GSC can be served late as long as it's served prior to the section 21 notice.

Seething Landlord

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17:06 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Kate Mellor at 23/02/2023 - 16:41
I think you'll find that as far as service within the first 4 months is concerned, Shelter are referring to the situation where the current tenancy is effectively a continuation of the original. The whole point of your suggestion that a new tenancy be issued is that it would break the link with the old one.

I will need to check out what they are saying regarding service of the gas safety certificate but it is certainly my understanding that case law does not support that view. I hope they are right because it would put a lot of minds at rest.

Graham Bowcock

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17:16 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Kate Mellor at 23/02/2023 - 16:41
If you were to grant a new tenancy of, say, 6 months, you could not serve notice until after month four of that tenancy, even though it is not the original tenancy, the point being to enable the tenant to occupy for the whole of the agreed fixed term.

Kate Mellor

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17:18 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Graham Bowcock at 23/02/2023 - 17:16
Yes, we were discussing a contractual periodic tenancy with no fixed term. One that follows on from a previous tenancy which did have a fixed term.

Ross Tulloch

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17:20 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

Is this possible:
Get vendor to ask tenants to give their notice in writing and actually leave the property for one night (leaving possessions) and next day move back in on new contracts with all correct paperwork in place, each earning £100 for the trouble? And a small reduction in price? Or a variation of this, with vacant possession on completion day for a night, and new documentation in your name on that next day? All signed before completion and all certs in place?

David Houghton

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17:20 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 23/02/2023 - 17:06
Trecarell is the important case. The landlord had a gas safety certificate from before the tenancy and failed to serve it.

In this case it's different, the landlord didn't have a gas safety check before the tenancy.

Will it matter? To my knowledge we do know. The language in the statute is different to say the EPC.

So unless there's another case we really don't know

David Houghton

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17:22 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Ross Tulloch at 23/02/2023 - 17:20
Can the tenant leave for 1 night. Courts generally don't like devices to evade legislation. So probably not.

Saeed Raja

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18:11 PM, 23rd February 2023, About 2 years ago

I bought my very first buy to let (completion November 2022) I deliberately bought it with a tenant that had been in house for last 8 years without issues, I just wanted to make sure I started getting income immediately, so far, so good, I can’t advice you what to do BUT maybe find out what job they have, any references? Do they have a stable job, I.e. if they were made redundant, could they get a similar job straight away? We are living in a different era with uncertainty so be careful because at the end of the day…. You need regular income without fail, my house came with the gas safe certificate and electric certificate,
If you did walk away? You could actually shop around as many landlords are starting to sell up,
Going back to my purchase, I was very lucky because I got a mortgage on the OLD lower rates fixed for 5 years…

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