Tenant refusing gas safety check

PS - I think it could be the article title which has confused matters.

If you read all of Adrian's comments it is quite clear that his tenant has not refused access, he has just not been very helpful to date.

Therefore, I think the advice offered by Lauren and many others holds good.

If you don't mind me saying, perhaps a little less aggression in your comments might be more endearing? It doesn't bother me but others might see them as being pompous and I'm sure you wouldn't want people to think that of you would you?
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Reply to the comment left by "lauren field" at "12/09/2013 - 16:38":

Thanks for developing the argument, Lauren. I had no strength to go into the details.

One comment: s.8 notices and related proceedings are to evict, with variable success depending on the situation.
If the aim is simply to gain access then LL could in principle 'just' try to obtain a court injunction.

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "13/09/2013 - 10:03":

@Mark

"pompous" "less aggression" ? 🙂

Aggression? Where?

Was that aimed at me? 🙂

Putting up a fair argument should not be seen as pompous or aggressive. It encourages free enquiry and argument which is what this forum is about.

As said, there is common ground and you will see counter arguments have been changed to fit in line with mine. Such as sending letters in the event of refusal of access etc.

I think you will find Lauren is coming in with the lengthy emails not me:)

Reply to the comment left by "Richard Kent " at "13/09/2013 - 14:06":

I was just trying to respectfully point out that some phrases might come across that way. Examples include:-

"you are full of bluster"

"Your rhetoric is well meant I am sure."

"I can hear undertones of inexperience in your questions so I will not indulge you in many answers."

"much of what you have suggested all falls flat on its face"

"I can see some common ground appearing now she has done some research on this subject "

Just saying - it might be that I am the only person reading it this way.

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "13/09/2013 - 14:23":

Hi Guys

Mark I think you may be correct in that the title is confusing some. However, in his posts, Adrian makes it quite clear the tenant has not (as of yet) refused access.

I apologise for any confusion I may have caused as my aim of the original post was to provide a clearer understanding of the whole picture in general and I strayed off responding to Adrian’s exact questions/comments. When I replied it was supposed to be not just for Adrian’s benefit but also for the benefit of future forum members who may well be new landlords and have joined to understand their obligations. After all, we all have to start somewhere. As Landlords you should be responsible and make it your business to understand what is expected etc. Many do not or do realise, or just don’t understand. Sadly, the same applies to many agents. It’s not like you go off to college for a couple of years and learn all aspects of letting. The truth is most of us have learnt as we have gone long.

The great things is that excellent advice and personal experiences are being shared on this forum not just by professionals but also long time landlords so new & old we can all learn & try to make sure we all undertake good practice. Whether we act on the advice given is up to each of us individually. So I take the view, that when someone challenges me and questions what I have written then that is it my responsibility to try and rewrite it in a way that is clearer so people understand what I am actually trying to say so that perhaps I can prevent them from potential hardship or prosecution.

Some of the posts do not reflect Adrian’s comments or his need for reassurance in the course of action he has taken was correct. In my opinion, Adrian has done nothing wrong, he has not even implied he plans to force entry and no one on here has told him to do so. However, much of this thread has become about forced entry. I went around the long way trying to get that very point across – apologies Adrian.

Richard, no-one on here disagrees with you that it is unlawful to enter the property without the tenants permission. However, you made a couple of posts that lack specific detail which caused some of us to ask for more information and in my case try to clarify the whole picture surrounding Gas Safety and give you a viewpoint of the worse case scenario.

I would very much like to see the copy of the letter you have offered, as then it will give me a greater understanding of where you are coming from and I will then be able to discuss it with you as you asked.

However, you should never be offended when someone asks you a question about a post you’ve made. You have taken the time to respond with the best intentions.

For example, there was an earlier post on page 2 where Romain asks you for greater clarification you respond with “I can hear undertones of inexperience in your questions so I will not indulge you in many answers”, I am sure you did not mean to come across so rude or unhelpful but that surely is the point of this forum. We all have different levels of experience and we all have different ways of interpreting what words and sentences mean. So what I am trying to say is that let’s try and understand that not everyone gets what we mean first time round and where our experience outweighs another and they have a question surely it would be of more use to everyone for us to take a little time and explain ourselves further.

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "13/09/2013 - 14:23":

@ Mark,

I disagree that they are pompous and aggressive. However, I think they are comments that are part of discussion and debate, which is what this forum is about.

I appreciate you are concerned things do get out of hand on forums.

However, I just raise the following open and fair points.

1. It's an open forum

2. No one is swearing at eachother nor making threats

3. We are all supposedly adults

4. Lauren and I are not enemies and I have offered her a copy of my letter for example

5. When you make 'big' arguments on a forum you should expect some equally 'big' counter arguments.

By arguments I mean in the context of discussion

Please don't take offence to my comments.

Reply to the comment left by "Richard Kent " at "13/09/2013 - 14:37":

Hi Richard

I agree with all that you have said in your post above and I never took offence at your comments as none of those I've listed were aimed at me anyway.

I've made my point now, shall we leave it at that?
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Reply to the comment left by "lauren field" at "13/09/2013 - 14:26":

Thanks Lauren,

I will make this quick and short.........

I appreciate your kind comments and understanding.

I think my comments have been misunderstood.

With all respect to Roman.The problem with answering everything in detail to Roman for example is it becomes very time consuming and additionally I offered the key facts.

You know the scenario; its difficult to answer everyone with all their enquiries in infinite detail.

Speak to you all soon..............

Richard,

I have not altered my view point at all, as soon as you made the comments you did, I realised you I had not made myself clear.

In my original I made the following statement “So, you ARE within your rights as a landlord to enter the property to perform a gas safety check providing you have made it clear to the tenant of your intention & given them sufficient notice” I would think this is what has got you all hot under the collar. May I respectively suggest have not taken it in context with the earlier paragraphs as to tenancy agreement clauses and what is right and proper for a landlord. A landlord is within his right to enter the property for the purposes of carrying out emergency repairs, gas safety etc.

However, I accept that taken in the context of your own posts (as opposed to mine) in regards to tenants preventing access, the fact I omitted to say, “unless the tenant refuses” has misled you.

Please be advised that in my original post, I also went onto say “However, if the tenant emails you back and says NO or won’t let you in when you turn up as per the arrangement in your letter then will need to go to court using a section 8 notice

Do not persist in trying to barge in and make sure you keep all correspondence, its all in writing.

Overall, the fault was mine in that I was trying to be helpful not just to Adrian but other landlords. I wrote my response in a hurry whilst waiting for a client. I should not have done that as you have misread what I meant because my sentences were not clear because I wrongly assumed we were all in agreement that you cannot unlawfully enter the premises.

We will have to agree to disagree as to what you perceive ALL reasonable steps mean and I accept you do not share my viewpoint. That’s perfectly fine but please understand that I have not at all revised my way of thinking or my interpretation of the law.

I suspect you have never been in a court room having to answer questions from either a Judge or Barrister. I have. Many times in fact. Hence, I will always look at a situation from the worse case and advise accordingly. That way if ever the worse does happen you are protected as much as you can be.

I really would like to discuss your own personal situation more, as I feel it could be very helpful for all of us to learn from. So please do send me the letter you promised. My personal email is Lauren.field@live.co.uk - thanks

Reply to the comment left by "Romain " at "13/09/2013 - 10:40":

Ok, Romain apologies for taking awhile to repsond.

Yes, in the event where a tenant repeatedly refuses all attempts of access and prevents you from carrying out a gas safety certificate, which is a criminal offence (if found guilty) to ensure, as a Landord you are fully protected in case the worse happens and assuming the tenant is still paying the rent I would always advise the injunction route.

However, it is worth bearing in mind the individual circumstances of the tenancy overall should be taken into account. For example, is the tenancy coming to end, is the tenant genreally awkward. Does he allow you to carry out inspesctions etc.

On many occasions, believe it or not tenants are fearful of the landlord coming round hence their reluctance to let you in. This is where a third party intervening on your behalf can be helpful