Spending Review 2015 – 3% increase on Stamp Duty for BTL and second homes

Reply to the comment left by "Demented Landlord" at "24/01/2016 - 08:43":

Actually, Demented, I think that once we have whipped their asses on C24 we can move on with further legal action. The discrimination against us a singled-out group is outrageous and this was the last straw. As a group we can build a very large legal fund and start fighting back.

With the consultation due to finish up soon, do you think there is any chance they may change their stance on purchase of off plan properties? Mine is not due to be complete until the end of the year. The guideline says that anyone who exchanged after 25th november knew they would be applicable for SDLT but i put a reservation deposit down of £2k on thw 23rd november and didnt exchange until late december. It was either that or i just say goodbye to £2k just because george osborne changed the rules after i had committed with a reservation deposit. Surely new developers need the finances of investors in order to get projects off the ground. How many first time buyers in london have 10-20% to put down? This is going to cost me the differencw of £12k if no change.

Seems our boy George may have ben disingenuous in blaming BTL for house price rises.

Whilst trying to find penalties for letting out a property bought with Help To Buy, I came across the Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_to_Buy which suggests that it is George's Help To Buy scheme that is largely to blame.

Reply to the comment left by "Michael Barnes" at "03/02/2016 - 10:45":

Has anyone seriously suggested BTL has pushed prices up?

Alice has said it does, so the presumption is IT DOESN'T.

HPC say the same but on steroids, so ditto.

Superficially there is a possibility, but marginally if measurable!

BTL DOES put more money into building new, and into renovating run down properties that were or nearly uninhabitable. Bought at below normal market prices, on the open market hanging about due to the lack of desire.

H2B is a political stunt, but is likely to add, I thought 6% iirc,

But that was at 20%, now it 40% on new build, it is pushing more people into losing their 5% deposit and their credit rating, if the housing market goes tits-up, and pushing at least London and SE prices up substantially. But it will buy a few more Tory votes, possibly.

House Prices and landlords Mythys and Media >>>Mathematically speaking its almost an impossibility for us to distort prices.. Have a .play with a calculator. National figs suggest we have maybe 16 % of housing stock.
Even with that increasing slightly you can not drive up the price of anything with a tiny share of market its just not possible ....unless you were paying way, way over market price...No professional landlord will do that. Also most rental properties are at the lower end of market. Often they are "do ups".In any event there is no incentive for a landlord to pay above market.Also many landlords do multi occupancy..bed sit stuff..Our effect on the so called national average house price is not only minimal..it is also mathematically comparatively smaller than..the effects of private buyers who will and do buy houses at an average price higher than landlords...Therefore any economist/maths person with even a basic understanding of the housing market would never make the ridiculous claim that we have seriously inflated the problems for private buyers.Simply put its a mathematical non starter. Unfortunately both Carney and Boy George failed to consider this or are completely ignorant of what landlords do. Try this...for some weird reason (insane) 20% of a market pay 4% over market levels. If this somehow does inflate future sales..which is not BOUND to happen anyway...the whole market can only reasonably be inflated by a fifth of 4%....which i believe is 0.8%
except that you then have to dilute....( the whole of market house price fig thing )..the 0.8% further by the deviation..of the properties involved..value thereof..as compared to whole market average. So in practice as the houses will be small lower priced..typically...the effect of this mad splurge of mythical crazy overprice buying..will therefore be less than o.8 % if anything. Whats missed in all the hype is .."who the hell buys for cash anyway?? as a first time buyer.??.so actually the price of a house is largely irrelevant ( apart from perhaps some lending criteria..)..in fact in terms of first time buyers its the COST of finance ie the interest rate that is THE crucial factor,In fact houses as a cost.to purchase have never ever been cheaper with rates available ( including fixed) around 2%.Despite the "SOARING' myth.,The problem for first time buyers is ..in reality..
1.Poor credit history..georgie boy doesnt want to acknowledge that ..politically suicidal issue..maybe..but trust me i have contacts at lenders and its MASSIVE.We have at least two generations were a lot of people that love their credit cards cars holidays and lifestyle and have poor credit scores.Thats a fact im afraid.Ask someone who works inside such a place. A very significant proportion of people have effectively put themselves out of the picture.through their credit history etc..etc.Again not my opinion or anything to do with landlords..a fact. Ask someone who sees the paperwork.
2.Lending criteria have been generally stiffened..earnings ratios to losan..deposits etc..partly on government pressure and its certainly toss all to do with landlords.
3. In broad terms we are not a nation of savers.There are countries were people are somewhat more disposed to save and less inclined to borrow.Germany for one. Hence no deposit money and i will hazard a guess here that georgie boys latest scheme on that will not make much difference as its really about attitudes and determinations on lifestyle and increasing or not..ones income.
4 ...In any event i keep saying it..but..the myth goes on..the whole damn scenario ..clause 24 etc is founded on a myth of staggering proportions..i repeat for the umpteenth time,The uk does not have soaring house prices.It really does not. If some personally have experienced this they are in the minority...10 million people in london .... over fifty million elsewhere.
I here this" soaring house price " thing day in day out..even from landlords. I do wish people would actually look at the three big national charts.NONE of them reflect a situation of soaring house prices.in the uk generally..Quite the reverse in fact...MOST of the uk has actually been through and is STILL iin at best beginning to emerge from an extended period of somewhat depressed house price growth when viewed over the long and medium term THATS WITH LONDON AND THE SOUTHEAST INCLUDED in the national charts. Take the south east out and most of around fifty million of us are living in an extended period of historically poor house price growth.Thats not an opinion its a fact..as per all the charts`. Unfortunately it doesnt sell papers or seem of much interest..the myth is preferred and people go on perpetuating it...It is that nonsense that underpins all the errors recently made by government and policy makers. Actually i find it astounding that they and the media are apparently incapable of looking at three charts which all say about the same..and accurately interpreting them....BUT then...the south sea bubble wasnt..was it ?...tulips are exceedingly valuable arent they ??.........they were probably more rational beliefs in their day than the current soaring house price one......which can be checked out in todays internet world in about two minutes......by simply looking at and reading the charts correctly.
False reading of situation coupled with poor understanding of the market (even its history).....leads to knee jerk reaction. We as landlords should be careful not to perpetuate the base myth .That would make us even more ridiculous than the ignorant reactionaries that have created this destructive clause and sought political capital
from other ignorant people who fail to understand its operation,effect and the soon to be felt consequences ..the latter group may be partly excused by georgie boys misleading speech and in particular his reference to top rate tax payers etc...landlords who perpetuate the "soaring house price problem"..albeit by condescending to its "existence" can not reasonably avail themselves of such an excuse.
Indeed failing to attack that myth as a precursor to our case.. both moral and legal ..will perhaps be very injurious to any prospect of an early victory.

Hi Michael.
I think you could edit this a bit and if you could find some supporting graphs and stats this could make a good Property118 article - entitled something like 'the myth of soaring prices.' What you say is certainly true in Wales where prices have been more or less static where I am since 2007 (or fallen and got back to 2007 levels, maybe).

Reply to the comment left by "Ros ." at "03/02/2016 - 19:22":

Well yes..Ros...the charts most commonly..used or maybe misused are nationwide halifax and national gov stats ..land registry etc. They are all on the net .All show a pretty similar longer picture.Anyone can look at them and see that from around 2007 the national picture is nothing like that portrayed and constantly discussed by the majority of people. House prices have always fluctuated in terms of growth rates and the longer term picture is one of catch up toward a longer term ave growth since 2007ish, No more and in many areas as you say a lot less.Many large provincial cities are way way below the GROWTH that the south east has seen. The long term average is about 3% per annum for the country as a whole over an extended period.The modest rises across a lot of the uk are if anything a return towards the long term average and of course many areas have only just got back to levels of around pre GFC...so really no growth there although the last two years or so seen in isolation may look a bit better. Anyone who can be bothered can raise the charts over say fifteen years. Many who think that we have had soaring prices would be surprised what a nonsense that is when its analysed properly.

I can't see how prices aren't going up in London and the like. Part of the answer must be for some to get on their bike, and move to where you can but a house for £40k is s Wales. If you work on line, why not. But agree, no price increases for most of the country.

A plea, please use new paragraphs, to make it easier to read!

Interesting article in DT

"But the ex-local authority market isn’t just a good route in high-density urban areas. Buy-to-let landlords in Dartmouth, Devon, face high house prices and some of the lowest yields in the country."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/buy-to-let/12127666/Buy-to-let-Ive-doubled-my-yield-through-letting-ex-counci-houses.html

So this supports your argument BTL has nowt to do with house prices rising, why would BTL be responsible for pushing these prices higher in Dartmouth, if the returns are so poor?

Please can everyone SIGN and SHARE the below petition against George Osborne's stamp duty hike:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114140

Reply to the comment left by "Gareth Wilson" at "18/02/2016 - 19:01":

Done