Shelter’s Head of Research misled public on TV

Some posters have commented that those not pledging should give their reasons why, so here are my reasons for not pledging. Two of my properties are company lets and rented out as serviced apartments. One of my properties has a good long term AST tenant but I plan to sell this property in 2 years time to pay off a mortgage. Another property also has a very good long term AST tenant, no deposit has been taken and I pay no agency fees and he has been there 7 years, and if and when he leaves this property will also be sold. My other property, which is a holiday let in an historic market town, is going very well. In spite of high agent's fees, around 20% of bookings income, this property should deliver about double what I would get on an AST. I am sympathetic to the new landlords' body but do not feel that they can do anything for me which I am not already doing for myself.

Reply to the comment left by Mick Roberts at 16/10/2018 - 16:20
It's a mystery why these blameless model tenants Shelter keep telling us about aren't just snapped up by another private landlord, isn't it?

Like you SilverSurfer I am not remotely affected, as of now, by any of the issues that the Landlords Alliance will be lobbying about apart from that of tax relief which any of us with BTL mortgages would surely love to see restored. However I identify with other landlord's concerns and of course think Shelter's utterings need to be challenged. Consequently for a measly £100 I'm in. I believe we need to stick together and support someone who will take up the cudgels not just say "doesn't affect me" which appears to be your stance. A great shame you feel that way.

Every Landlord should be grateful for people like Richard who may not be affected to the extent others are. Despite this Richard and landlords like him see the bigger picture. The Apathy i alluded to earlier is evident here with other landlords posting and giving us reasons why they wont spend £100 on a cause which should concern all of us. I with 3 other landlords personally paid £2000 for barrister report on the liverpool situation. Unfortunately we were out of time for a JR. We lost the money but who cares. We accept that we will have landlords who post here but do little else. The most important thing is that those who pledged are passionate and prepared to fight. Id rather have one of these pledges that then whingers consumed with negativity.

Reply to the comment left by Larry Sweeney at 16/10/2018 - 20:46
Larry, the fact some professional landlords are expressing concerns about your tone, language and aggressive stance does not make them 'whingers', negative or any of the other derisory accusations you have made. When I expressed concern that your first tweet called for the cessation of foreign aid you indicated that it was only a tweet. That wasn't a useful response at all. You can't assume all landlords share your personal political agenda. I agree wholeheartedly that as landlords we need to up our game to get our message across. I just don't think what I have seen so far from the Alliance portrays us as a professional, intelligent and reasonable group

Thanks Annie.
I do not expect all of us to share the same politicial views. I have made it abundantly clear that the Alliance is not the NLA/RLA. We have not presided over nor played any part what so ever in the so called lobbying that landed us with sect 24 ,The new Uk accounting standard. Nor have we pretended to lobby against flawed licensing schemes then jumped in to bed with councils. Forget about about worrying about our tone or agressive stance. I personally would be far more worried about sect 24, possible loss of sect 21, £30k fines without due process. Corbyn and his mad plans for rent caps. If you do not wish to join the Alliance Annie Great, I wish you well but please refrain from attacking us for our agressive stance. We will do what ever it takes irrespective of what you think to push back against the onslaught the PRS and we dont have time to get bogged down with Trivia. As they say "you can please some of the people some of the time and all of the People" etc. Let us get on with the job and save your comments for the organisations which have let you down
We have not let you down at all and as you are not a member, I suggest you take serious issue with the bodies who purport to represent all of us and who have failed miserably. Annie that is not being agressive or attacking you. I am simply stating the facts. Sect 24, Landlord licensing, the eviction process, Shelter, calls for scrapping Sect 21, calls for rent controls, £30k Fines without due process etc etc and you are upset by our language. Get real.

Reply to the comment left by Larry Sweeney at 16/10/2018 - 21:48Larry you and others asked for the reasons why not everyone who reads this thread has pledged membership of the alliance you are setting up. In response several of us have expressed our honest differences of attitude and approach. This does not mean that we do not feel the injustices just as keenly, that we are not in sympathy with many of your aims or that we are too mean or selfish to contribute £100. The exchanges on this thread have shown no evidence that you engage in rational debate but rather, simply dismiss views that are not aligned with your own as tosh, twaddle and trivia. You now even appear to be blaming landlords' associations for George Osborne's Section 24! You asked for our reasons for not joining, some of us have given them and you have posted your reaction. As far as I am concerned our dialogue is now closed. You have many supporters in your endeavour and I wish you well with it but cannot give it my personal support.

Reply to the comment left by Larry Sweeney at 16/10/2018 - 21:48
Larry, I don't know if you were on this forum when S24 was first promulgated but if you were you will remember the massive campaign that was conducted to try to stop it, with letters to and meetings with MPs, petitions to parliament, detailed evidence to the parliamentary committee considering the Finance Bill (that was ignored), the Ros report, publicity via all the local landlord associations, an application for judicial review, dire warnings about the consequences - all to no effect.
Are you including the Property 118 campaign, which was as I recall supported to some extent by the RLA/NLA, in what you describe disparagingly as the "so called lobbying that landed us with sect 24"? What can you do that was not done then and why do you think you will have any more chance of success?
My perception is that most have accepted that S24 will only be repealed when the chickens have come home to roost and Government are confronted with a housing crisis that can be dealt with in no other way. Sorry if this sounds negative but it's my take on reality and explains why some of those who can take steps to mitigate the effect of S24 have already done so, in many cases at great financial and personal cost.

It is no just a question of a measley £100 it's whether you truly believe in the cause. I do support charities and tend to support underfunded charities like Mind, and ignore the well funded heart, cancer and animal charities. This does not mean that I am unsympathetic to people suffering with cancer or that I would ever be cruel to an animal.
Most landlords now realise that we are now operating in a very hostile environment. They also realise that the best days for being a standard BTL landlord are over. Organisations like Shelter will continue to attack private landlords and government bodies will do very little because at the end of the day this will just draw attention to the dismal failure of this government (and previous ones) to build sufficient affordable housing. IMHO the situation will get worse not better. The government needs to raise some taxes to 'end austerity' and the PRS is an obvious target. The government refuses to accept the reality that increasing taxes on landlords not only increases rents for the tenants but diminishes the supply
Many landlords are already changing their business models to take account of the new environment we operate in. Some are selling up completely. Some are selling part of their portfolio to pay off existing mortgages. Some are letting to companies. In suitable areas some are moving over to more favourably taxed holiday lets.
You don't have to personally own BTL properties to invest in property. The capital gains tax regime is crippling for a higher rate tax payer. There are property funds which invest in residential properties which will give a secure and rising income and some capital growth. There are also investments like Tritax Big Box REIT which invests in warehousing space and rents out to big on-line companies like Amazon. All these types of investments will benefit from the £11,700 per annum tax free CGT allowance. In any case the maximum CGT rate will be 20% and not 28%. Of course many of these investments could be in an ISA and no tax at all on income or capital gains.

Reply to the comment left by at 17/10/2018 - 08:55
But you all *do* truly believe in the cause...just, it seems, not the method.
Pledge. Don't concern yourself in the meantime. Await a result. Worst case = loss of that measley £100...

If it doesn't work out, you can have the pleasure of saying, "I told you so!" That's gotta be worth £100 on its own if you feel so strongly, no?

If we are successful, you'll happily reap the rewards though, won't you?!