Selective licensing – should I appeal the number of occupants restriction?

reply to them and ask them to qualify the “1 household, or 2 persons in two households”. exactly.
Are they just trying to explain the HMO regulations about un related households or do they mean occupancy levels - there is a difference.

1 household can actually mean three occupants. 2 adults and a child (if over the age of 10) or even 4 occupants 2 adults and child over 10 and one under 10 for example.

SL is more concerned with the total occupancy in properties - they want to stop 'overcrowding'. (despite ignoring that entirely when it comes to them housing where they pile a 6 person family into a bed flat!)

Reply to the comment left by Judith Wordsworth at 29/08/2024 - 13:07Agreed. But as I and Jose have said, how do you monitor tenants' private lives, and who is responsible for them complying with the household numbers?
I suspect the answer is 'the landlord', but you can't just turn up to inspect, and you can't sit outside all day and night for a week, watching who goes in and how long they stay, and which 'household' they are actually associated with.
This is the crazy situation these licensing schemes are creating, and another reason why the risk of a tenant landing you with a £30l fine is not worth the hassle.

Reply to the comment left by NewYorkie at 29/08/2024 - 13:27
It does seem a bit absurd. This suggests another supplementary question now, given i have not a tenancy active currently...

Maybe an addtional clause in the AST stating what the specific occupancy that particular property is licenced for, and that contravention of that by the tenant puts the tenant signatory in breach of contract.

Anyone able to suggest a good draft of this, and anyone legally experienced have an opinion on whether this would indeed have legal heft? Thanks guys!

Reply to the comment left by Reluctant Landlord at 29/08/2024 - 13:18
On reading the small print of the draft licence i have been provided with, regarding children, it says "the maximum permitted persons stated is made regardless of age". So in my case: two adults not of the same household living together, if one of them were to fall pregnant and have a baby, I'd be in breach. Granted that might not be a regular housing set up, but it is still a bit strange, and no where near overcrowding. And i would have the necessity (and the grounds?) to evict them...?

Reply to the comment left by Jose at 29/08/2024 - 16:03
And yet... they put whole families in one room 'temporarily', which can turn into years, because they have nowhere else due to prioritising 'irregular' migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers.

Reply to the comment left by Jose at 29/08/2024 - 16:03In this scenario I’d contact the local authority and inform them of the situation. It may be that the position is indeed an HMO but that no licence is required it being classed as a “low risk HMO”. Take advise from the local Environmental Health Officer and get whatever they say in writing. At least going to them upfront should put you in the clear and show you’re willing to co-operate. Different local authorities have different rules regarding whether or not an HMO is licensable. Some only insist on a license when the number of occupants hits five persons, others when there’s just three persons.

Definitely put Representations in and then also appeal to First Tier Tribunal if they reject.
At 65m2 (above 61m2) all on one floor and assuming at least one of the bedrooms is larger than 10.22m2 (min. size for a double), it would be evaluated as providing 3 person bedspaces if submitted to Planning dept for a new-build/new conversion per the national technical space standards guidance doc: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012976/160519_Nationally_Described_Space_Standard.pdf. The flat is suitable for couple + one child (maybe two depending on ages) at the very least and the restriction to two occupants is completely irrational.

A couple + sharer would make it an HMO in law, but this arrangement is usually excluded from the scope of local discretionary Additional Licencing Schemes, and likely does not require an HMO licence (but check local rules).

If there is a Article 4 direction in place in your area, that would mean you don't have usualy flexibility to switch freely back/forth between HMO and non-HMO use; that would include between family of 3 or couple+sharer. You can re-assert that right for a 10 year period with a planning application for "C3/C4 mixed use" which would make sense for a let property on that scale. The planning use class at the end of the 10 years defaults to the Use on that 10th anniversary date of the grant.

Overall, it seems like they may have assessed it under local discretionary space standards for their HMO licencing scheme(s) whilst also acknowledging that it is out of scope of the HMO licencing scheme(s). That's not a rational approach to assessment, and is unduly impactful on your service provision.

If including occupancy restrictions to licences in a Selective Licencing Scheme, it would be reasonable though to refer to: the national technical space standards guidance.

Reply to the comment left by Derek And jen at 29/08/2024 - 09:45
I’m trying with our local council but get nowhere too! Getting me to do loads of alterations and I’m a good landlord. They don’t seem to chase any landlords that haven’t registered and I know of plenty!
Any ideas who you complain to? Who is responsible for the LL departments in a local council and who is responsible for that individual council?

Reply to the comment left by Jose at 29/08/2024 - 16:03
I'm afraid it is a landlords job to monitor who's living at their property. For one thing, if it became an HMO, your insurance would probably be void. Although it's the tenant that had created the HMO scenario, it would be likely to fall to you to take action and if you just ignored it or weren't even aware the Council would likely conclude that you were colluding with the breach of regulations and impose a penalty of up to £30k on you.

Reply to the comment left by DPT at 31/08/2024 - 11:25
If I somehow found my tenants had broken the licensing terms, I would immediately report it to the council, and seek their advice on how to proceed. I would then tell the tenants to address the situation immediately, and keep the council informed throughout.