Resolving prepayment meter dispute?

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 10/11/2023 - 13:40
I do have a cause/course of action, and a legal remedy. Yes it may cost me, but that does not concern me. I live on the edge! It is good to be able to share out my thinking with some experienced fellow landlords on this forum. Testing out any weakness in my thinking is working out better than I expected. So far, thank goodness, I seem to have most angles covered, but keep them coming.

Reply to the comment left by david.... (not Goliath) at 10/11/2023 - 14:57
That does not answer the question of what gives rise to the obligation.

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 10/11/2023 - 15:12
You say "That does not answer the question of what gives rise to the obligation".

But I thought we had covered this one.

Can you expand with a few more words to clarify your point on what obligation. Obligation for what.

Reply to the comment left by david.... (not Goliath) at 10/11/2023 - 14:48
The most likely definition of an occupier is the person who has the right of entry to and control over a piece of land or a property.

I do not know much about HMOs but believe that the landlord retains the right of entry to the common areas and that might be what they are relying on or the source of the dispute i.e that because you could enter the property at will you were an occupier for the purposes of the Act. Have you considered that possibility or am I barking up the wrong tree? The answer might depend upon the nature of the tenancy agreement but it is difficult to know exactly what is relevant when you keep revealing little snippets of further information.

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 10/11/2023 - 15:12I can now answer your point of what 'obligates' the supplier to ensure their customers have the appropriate metering arrangements in place.
The answer is that the supplier is obligated under the terms of their operating license that OFGEM issue.

Reply to the comment left by david.... (not Goliath) at 10/11/2023 - 15:21The obligation to provide suitable metering as referred to by ofgem.

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 10/11/2023 - 15:38
Your point defining the 'occupier' in the text of, "The most likely definition of an occupier is the person who has the right of entry to and control over a piece of land or a property", is an interesting and one I had not considered.

You are correct about the rights of access of landlords to access the common areas in HMO's. Although strictly speaking, unless in case of an emergency, good practice would be for the landlord to give notice before entering.

However, in respect of the 1989 Act and utility companies general deemed terms and conditions, there is the additional reference to 'usage'. Hopefully the [landlord] 'Occupier' who has access to the property but is not using the supply, cannot be the legal occupier in this case.

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 10/11/2023 - 15:40
Got. See earlier answer.

Reply to the comment left by david.... (not Goliath) at 10/11/2023 - 15:52
Let me play devil's advocate because I think that's what is needed. There is a difference between using and consuming. You are using the electricity supply to facilitate letting the property to the tenants who are consuming it.

How does that sound?

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 10/11/2023 - 16:59Now ya talkin'. It sounds like you are across the court room arguing about the intention and interpretation of the law which is exactly what any two advocates would do if this goes to court. (If all solicitors were right then there wouldn't be any need for judges!)
But you have a fair point and one which I have been pondering over since first reading, a little further down, in the 1989 Electricity Act, where it reads
"the owner or occupier shall be deemed to have contracted with the appropriate supplier for the supply of electricity as from the time (“the relevant time”) when he began to take such a supply."
Now reading that there is a good debate to have on, just what "taking the supply is". This is potentially worrying, but again there is no case law to be found. I am encourage by the actions of another [Big 6] utility company who supply another one of my HMO's where, until recently I included the gas and electricity in the rent. Faced with rising costs I told the utility company that as landlord I am no longer paying the bills and from [date] they should contact the occupiers who are using their supply. The utility company accepted this and, so far, since February 2023, have accepted that I have no liability for the usage.