Receiving a section 21(1)b

Note that here the s.21(1)(b) notice was served during a fixed term tenancy so Spencer v. Taylor is completely irrelevant.

IO @ 9:37 on 26th:
Could you explain your reasoning for "delivery on 21st means the clock started ticking on 23rd"? Is it because it was likely left after 4.30pm? Thanks.

@Romain

I am well aware of that I was just trying to be helpful so anyone starting the process from now on and using s21(1) doesn't fall into a possible trap. To be honest best advice and this is not just from me but far better legal minds, is unless desperate and really time sensitive Landlords and agents should continue the old s21(4) use and dating methoid probaboy for this year and until local Courts get used to seeing s21s issued DURING the periodic state being used to terminate a periodic tenancy.

I have known cases where Judges have been sniffy about a s21(1)(b) being used in their Court to terminate what is then a periodic tenancy even though it ewas served very early in the fixed term.

Romain crumbs another timing where do you get 4.30 from?!!! But you are on right track and I am quite pleased with myself for spotting why the notice is invalid.

The service periods accepted by the Court are:-

If served tomorrow Monday 27th BY PERSONAL SERVICE and before 4pm (there is argument about whether it is 4pm or 5pm and opinions change so take 4pm for safety - it is actually 5pm), then day 1 of the notice period is Monday 27th

Deliver it tomorrow and just shove it through the door by 4pm/5pm and Tuesday is first day of notice period.

Post it first class and Wednesday is first day

So........................

If this notice was hand delivered by the Landlord after 7pm on 21st then that day does not count, neither does 22nd the actual day of hand delivery so the clock starts ticking 23rd and 2 months expires 22nd.

I really am rather chuffed to have spotted that I must stop grinning!!!

Reply to the comment left by "Industry Observer " at "26/01/2014 - 10:39":

Hi Industry Observer

I would hope never take to it personally. I have saw many comments on the forum which I have found extremely useful and have read quite a few from you as well. I tell a lot of people about this site as it is a great asset and the information is really good. luckily I have not had to many problem's.

However knowing some of the issues others have had I have a starting point to work from.

Many thanks to you and all the other people who comment.

Ok, thanks.
Not too sure I follow your explanation.
My understanding is that if notice is personaly delivered on 21st then deemed service is 21st unless delivered too late, in which case deemed service is the next day, 22nd.
Then my understanding is that notice period starts the day after deemed service.

4.30pm is the cutoff time stated in the Civil Procedure Rules in relation to deemed date of service.

@Romain

Which EXACT CPR rule?

I will investigate, then explain using the proper dates as in article above

OK here is the definitive word on timing of notices in terms of time of day and CPR and also the correct sequence for this particular notice.

Romain's 4.30 comment is correct, but only for the service of Court papers but not for a 21 which is not covered by court rules.

There are two ways you can look at this when is a day not a date etc issue, which has also been the subject of a Court decision, I think CoA. Anyway.....

First imagine delivery at 2359 the tenant did not have it that day so start counting from the next day, 2 "clear" months, ie every single hour of the two months.

The second way is to say it was served at 1300 in the 15 Jan. Two months later is 1300 on the 15 Mar. However as tenancies run in whole days, the notice will run on till midnight. The effect is the same.

If you serve a notice before 1600 on the 15th and say it ends on the 14th there is a serious danger the court will throw you out.

Now in this particular case the 21st January did not count at all, and the notice for Court purposes was actually hand delivered (NOT personally served) on 22nd January. So the first day of the notice period is 23rd January which means the end date should be stated as March 22nd.

The notice is clearly invalid.

Romain your 'mistake' is confusing personal service with personal delivery which is understandable and an awful lot of people do. In personal service before 4pm then that day does indeed count. So if the Landlord could prove personal service if challenged then 21st would be the first day BUT the end date should then be March 20th!!

This is personal delivery and simply means the agent etc is acting like a postman but saving a day (as opposed to 1st class post being two days after date of posting).

CPR states that deemed date of service is the same whether a document is served personally, or if it left left at a permitted address.
So what is your reference to make a difference here? Thanks.

My reference is the guru who advises me and I have never known him wrong in 15 years. I once fought a score draw with him on an issue but that is the best I have ever managed.

My guess is it is the same for COURT served papers, but not otherwise. Same as the 4.30 only applies to COURT served papers.

But I will double check and advise