Does the punishment fit the crime?

Does the punishment fit the crime?

8:42 AM, 7th November 2018, About 6 years ago 52

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This morning I read about a landlord who failed to make improvements demanded by the local Council through notice under the Housing Act 2004. Apparently, the property required repairs to rectify a number of health and safety issues, including dangerous electrics and damp. There were no more details available than that in the article I read.

However, the Council issued a fixed penalty notice for £1,000 in regards to the smoke alarm and on top of that the landlord was fined £20,000.

I see that Property118 posted a comment below the article to say “we agree that non-compliance shouldn’t be tolerated, but we also believe in justice and a £20,000 fine just doesn’t make sense for a crime of this nature. Compare that to a fine for speeding for example, both of which have similar risks to human life.”

I also note that several “criminal landlord convictions” have subsequently been overturned on appeal.

Are landlords being singled out and treated unfairly by Council’s and the Judiciary?

Should landlords be compensated for stress and damage to their reputations after having their names dragged through the mud if/when they win their appeals, and should that compensation be commensurate to the fined imposed?

Do you think the punishments being handed out fit the crimes?

What are your thoughts?


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MARIE ELLIS

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21:58 PM, 7th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 07/11/2018 - 21:26
Ive spoken to cyril and he was really helpful. My understanding is that he had a licenced hmo and as terrible as his ordeal was mine was NOT a licensible hmo but im still being called an offender. Ive breached GUIDELINES not the law hence not an offender which is what im being called. Guilty before proving innocence. They said i didnt have alarms and i did. They didnt inspect upstairs. They were in 6 minutes and cant produce their HHSRS. When we asked for it they changed it to Management regs and im clear on that. No breaches in management crossed referenced with the law on it. Gave me 28 days to comply on a house i no longer had so couldnt. Its all mad

Luke P

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MARIE ELLIS

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13:13 PM, 8th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Luke P at 08/11/2018 - 12:39
Like someone else said there are two sides to every story. I didn't have the chance to do anything, they just called me an 'offender' and slapped me with a 25k fine. They did give me 28 days during which time the house was handed back to the landlord but said I was a criminal anyway so it didn't matter, it was just all about the 'crime' at the time they visited. There was no crime, no crime scene, no broken law. The article you mention does say the council will come down on heavily with landlords who don't co operate and I fully agree, but in my case it was IMPOSSIBLE to comply on a house that was handed back (and subsequently let to a family ) THREE days after the letter requiring me to install fire doors and smoke alarms (but there were already fire alarms, they just missed them). The only way I could have complied was to have BROKEN INTO the house with a carpenter and an electrician after it no longer belonged to me. I probably would have been arrested but then the 'fine' would probably have been less that the 25k the council want from me now. Has the world gone mad? I have always believed in justice and being innocent until proven guilty. Not the case here i'm afraid

Rob Crawford

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13:52 PM, 8th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by MARIE ELLIS at 08/11/2018 - 13:13
Apologies Marie, I'm a little confused, "They did give me 28 days during which time the house was handed back to the landlord but said I was a criminal anyway so it didn't matter". I thought you were the landlord?

MARIE ELLIS

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15:09 PM, 8th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Rob Crawford at 08/11/2018 - 13:52
It was a rent to rent. I didnt own the property but had sublet, with permission to my tenants. The lease was due to end ANYWAY as the owner wanted it back. I couldnt do work on a house i no longer had control of

AA

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14:39 PM, 9th November 2018, About 6 years ago

I am not a lawyer but I have been told by one, any person coercing another to break the law is in fact guilty of conspiracy to commit the offence. So if I get this right, you no longer have ownership of the property but you are being coerced into breaking the law by way of having to break - in to comply with these conditions ? - report them to the Police. To my mind this is no longer a civil matter.

MARIE ELLIS

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14:58 PM, 9th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by AA at 09/11/2018 - 14:39
well yes its just stupid, they didn't of course tell me to break in but gave me 28 days to comply and THREE days after I received this request I handed it back so i'm not sure how else I was going to achieve compliance!! I don't think the new family in there would have been impressed and they would have had no idea who I was. I told the council by emaile that I had handed it back and they just said it was an 'offence' at the time so i'm 'guilty' and they can hang me out to dry

AA

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22:57 PM, 9th November 2018, About 6 years ago

The alleged "offence" has a provision for 28 days to comply. This is the opportunity for corrective action to be taken before punitive measures can or are applied. The legislation, now I am taking a guess here will state or will imply you have control over the property to be afforded this due process. With the fact that you handed the property over to someone else you are not being afforded due process through the circumstances that prevail.

Reading of the Housing Act - nowhere does it state that a penalty can be for an offence for an instance in time.

MARIE ELLIS

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8:35 AM, 10th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by AA at 09/11/2018 - 22:57
Thank you thats what i think but ive still got to go through the expensive legal process to defend their stupidity. Is it worth contacting MP does anyone think? This is a total abuse of powers and i fear its a personal attack on me as i fell out with the officer (who hand delivered my notice on a pushbike) at my friends house as he was not doing his job properly (not enforcing on a huge landlady for not installing co2 alarms at a property with solid fuel heating). They gave her 28 days to comply and she had broken THE LAW.

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

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8:39 AM, 10th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by MARIE ELLIS at 10/11/2018 - 08:35
Yes I think you should involve your MP and we will be pleased to write up the story as it unfolds.

In regards to your legal costs, the other side will be ordered to pay these if/when you win your case. If that happens the council will have wasted the tax-payers money.

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