Privacy Policy
BACKGROUND:
Property118 Ltd understands that your privacy is important to you and that you care about how your personal data is used and shared online. We respect and value the privacy of everyone who visits this website,
www.property118.com (“Our Site”) and will only collect and use personal data in ways that are described here, and in a manner that is consistent with Our obligations and your rights under the law.
Please read this Privacy Policy carefully and ensure that you understand it. Your acceptance of Our Privacy Policy is deemed to occur upon your first use of Our Site
. If you do not accept and agree with this Privacy Policy, you must stop using Our Site immediately.
- Definitions and Interpretation
In this Policy the following terms shall have the following meanings:
“Account” |
means an account required to access and/or use certain areas and features of Our Site; |
“Cookie” |
means a small text file placed on your computer or device by Our Site when you visit certain parts of Our Site and/or when you use certain features of Our Site. Details of the Cookies used by Our Site are set out in section 13, below; |
“Cookie Law” |
means the relevant parts of the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003; |
“personal data” |
means any and all data that relates to an identifiable person who can be directly or indirectly identified from that data. In this case, it means personal data that you give to Us via Our Site. This definition shall, where applicable, incorporate the definitions provided in the EU Regulation 2016/679 – the General Data Protection Regulation (“GDPR”); and |
“We/Us/Our” |
Means Property118 Ltd , a limited company registered in England under company number 10295964, whose registered address is 1st Floor, Woburn House, 84 St Benedicts Street, Norwich, NR2 4AB. |
- Information About Us
- Our Site is owned and operated by Property118 Ltd, a limited company registered in England under company number 10295964, whose registered address is 1st Floor, Woburn House, 84 St Benedicts Street, Norwich, NR2 4AB.
- Our VAT number is 990 0332 34.
- Our Data Protection Officer is Neil Patterson, and can be contacted by email at npatterson@property118.com, by telephone on 01603 489118, or by post at 1st Floor, Woburn House, 84 St Benedicts Street, Norwich, NR2 4AB.
- What Does This Policy Cover?
This Privacy Policy applies only to your use of Our Site. Our Site may contain links to other websites. Please note that We have no control over how your data is collected, stored, or used by other websites and We advise you to check the privacy policies of any such websites before providing any data to them.
- Your Rights
- As a data subject, you have the following rights under the GDPR, which this Policy and Our use of personal data have been designed to uphold:
- The right to be informed about Our collection and use of personal data;
- The right of access to the personal data We hold about you (see section 12);
- The right to rectification if any personal data We hold about you is inaccurate or incomplete (please contact Us using the details in section 14);
- The right to be forgotten – i.e. the right to ask Us to delete any personal data We hold about you (We only hold your personal data for a limited time, as explained in section 6 but if you would like Us to delete it sooner, please contact Us using the details in section 14);
- The right to restrict (i.e. prevent) the processing of your personal data;
- The right to data portability (obtaining a copy of your personal data to re-use with another service or organisation);
- The right to object to Us using your personal data for particular purposes; and
- If you have any cause for complaint about Our use of your personal data, please contact Us using the details provided in section 14 and We will do Our best to solve the problem for you. If We are unable to help, you also have the right to lodge a complaint with the UK’s supervisory authority, the Information Commissioner’s Office.
- For further information about your rights, please contact the Information Commissioner’s Office or your local Citizens Advice Bureau.
- What Data Do We Collect?
Depending upon your use of Our Site, We may collect some or all of the following personal data (please also see section 13 on Our use of Cookies and similar technologies):
- Name;
- Date of birth;
- Address and post code;
- Business/company name and trading status;
- Number of properties owned;
- Accountants details;
- Contact information such as email addresses and telephone numbers;
- Proof of residence and ID;
- Financial information such as income and tax status;
- Landlords insurance renewal dates;
- Property Portfolio details such as value and mortgage outstanding;
- How Do We Use Your Data?
- All personal data is processed and stored securely, for no longer than is necessary in light of the reason(s) for which it was first collected. We will comply with Our obligations and safeguard your rights under the GDPR at all times. For more details on security see section 7, below.
- Our use of your personal data will always have a lawful basis, either because it is necessary for our performance of a contract with you, because you have consented to our use of your personal data (e.g. by subscribing to emails), or because it is in our legitimate interests. Specifically, we may use your data for the following purposes:
- Providing and managing your access to Our Site;
- Supplying our products and or services to you (please note that We require your personal data in order to enter into a contract with you);
- Personalising and tailoring our products and or services for you;
- Replying to emails from you;
- Supplying you with emails that you have opted into (you may unsubscribe or opt-out at any time by the unsubscribe link at the bottom of all emails;
- Analysing your use of our site and gathering feedback to enable us to continually improve our site and your user experience;
- Provide information to our partner service and product suppliers at your request.
- With your permission and/or where permitted by law, We may also use your data for marketing purposes which may include contacting you by email and or telephone with information, news and offers on our products and or We will not, however, send you any unsolicited marketing or spam and will take all reasonable steps to ensure that We fully protect your rights and comply with Our obligations under the GDPR and the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003.
- You have the right to withdraw your consent to us using your personal data at any time, and to request that we delete it.
- We do not keep your personal data for any longer than is necessary in light of the reason(s) for which it was first collected. Data will therefore be retained for the following periods (or its retention will be determined on the following bases):
- Member profile information is collected with your consent and can be amended or deleted at any time by you;
- Anti-Money Laundering information and tax consultancy records are to be kept as required by law for up to seven years.
- How and Where Do We Store Your Data?
- We only keep your personal data for as long as We need to in order to use it as described above in section 6, and/or for as long as We have your permission to keep it.
- Some or all of your data may be stored outside of the European Economic Area (“the EEA”) (The EEA consists of all EU member states, plus Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein). You are deemed to accept and agree to this by using our site and submitting information to Us. If we do store data outside the EEA, we will take all reasonable steps to ensure that your data is treated as safely and securely as it would be within the UK and under the GDPR
- Data security is very important to Us, and to protect your data We have taken suitable measures to safeguard and secure data collected through Our Site.
- Do We Share Your Data?
- We may share your data with other partner companies in for the purpose of supplying products or services you have requested.
- We may sometimes contract with third parties to supply products and services to you on Our behalf. Where any of your data is required for such a purpose, We will take all reasonable steps to ensure that your data will be handled safely, securely, and in accordance with your rights, Our obligations, and the obligations of the third party under the law.
- We may compile statistics about the use of Our Site including data on traffic, usage patterns, user numbers, sales, and other information. All such data will be anonymised and will not include any personally identifying data, or any anonymised data that can be combined with other data and used to identify you. We may from time to time share such data with third parties such as prospective investors, affiliates, partners, and advertisers. Data will only be shared and used within the bounds of the law.
- In certain circumstances, We may be legally required to share certain data held by Us, which may include your personal data, for example, where We are involved in legal proceedings, where We are complying with legal requirements, a court order, or a governmental authority.
- What Happens If Our Business Changes Hands?
- We may, from time to time, expand or reduce Our business and this may involve the sale and/or the transfer of control of all or part of Our business. Any personal data that you have provided will, where it is relevant to any part of Our business that is being transferred, be transferred along with that part and the new owner or newly controlling party will, under the terms of this Privacy Policy, be permitted to use that data only for the same purposes for which it was originally collected by Us.
- How Can You Control Your Data?
- In addition to your rights under the GDPR, set out in section 4, we aim to give you strong controls on Our use of your data for direct marketing purposes including the ability to opt-out of receiving emails from Us which you may do by unsubscribing using the links provided in Our emails.
- Your Right to Withhold Information
- You may access certain areas of Our Site without providing any data at all. However, to use all features and functions available on Our Site you may be required to submit or allow for the collection of certain data.
- You may restrict Our use of Cookies. For more information, see section 13.
- How Can You Access Your Data?
You have the right to ask for a copy of any of your personal data held by Us (where such data is held). Under the GDPR, no fee is payable and We will provide any and all information in response to your request free of charge. Please contact Us for more details at info@property118.com, or using the contact details below in section 14.
- Our Use of Cookies
- Our Site may place and access certain first party Cookies on your computer or device. First party Cookies are those placed directly by Us and are used only by Us. We use Cookies to facilitate and improve your experience of Our Site and to provide and improve Our products AND/OR We have carefully chosen these Cookies and have taken steps to ensure that your privacy and personal data is protected and respected at all times.
- All Cookies used by and on Our Site are used in accordance with current Cookie Law.
- Before Cookies are placed on your computer or device, you will be shown a cookie prompt requesting your consent to set those Cookies. By giving your consent to the placing of Cookies you are enabling Us to provide the best possible experience and service to you. You may, if you wish, deny consent to the placing of Cookies; however certain features of Our Site may not function fully or as intended. You will be given the opportunity to allow only first party Cookies and block third party Cookies.
- Certain features of Our Site depend on Cookies to function. Cookie Law deems these Cookies to be “strictly necessary”. These Cookies are shown below in section 13.5. Your consent will not be sought to place these Cookies, but it is still important that you are aware of them. You may still block these Cookies by changing your internet browser’s settings as detailed below in section 13.9, but please be aware that Our Site may not work properly if you do so. We have taken great care to ensure that your privacy is not at risk by allowing them.
- The following first party Cookies may be placed on your computer or device:
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Purpose |
Strictly Necessary |
JSESSIONID |
Used only to collect performance data, with any identifiable data obfuscated |
No |
__cfduid |
This cookie is strictly necessary for Cloudflare's security features and cannot be turned off. |
Yes |
- Our Site uses analytics services provided by Google Analytics and Facebook. Website analytics refers to a set of tools used to collect and analyse anonymous usage information, enabling Us to better understand how Our Site is used. This, in turn, enables Us to improve Our Site and the products AND/OR services offered through it. You do not have to allow Us to use these Cookies, however whilst Our use of them does not pose any risk to your privacy or your safe use of Our Site, it does enable Us to continually improve Our Site, making it a better and more useful experience for you.
- The analytics service(s) used by Our Site use(s) Cookies to gather the required information.
- The analytics service(s) used by Our Site use(s) the following Cookies:
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First / Third Party |
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Purpose |
__utma, __utmb, __utmc, __utmt, __utmz |
First |
Google |
Helps to understand how their visitors engage with our website |
_fbp |
First |
Facebook |
Helps to understand how their visitors engage with our website |
- In addition to the controls that We provide, you can choose to enable or disable Cookies in your internet browser. Most internet browsers also enable you to choose whether you wish to disable all cookies or only third party cookies. By default, most internet browsers accept Cookies but this can be changed. For further details, please consult the help menu in your internet browser or the documentation that came with your device.
- You can choose to delete Cookies on your computer or device at any time, however you may lose any information that enables you to access Our Site more quickly and efficiently including, but not limited to, login and personalisation settings.
- It is recommended that you keep your internet browser and operating system up-to-date and that you consult the help and guidance provided by the developer of your internet browser and manufacturer of your computer or device if you are unsure about adjusting your privacy settings.
- Contacting Us
If you have any questions about Our Site or this Privacy Policy, please contact Us by email at info@property118.com, by telephone on 01603 489118, or by post at 1st Floor, Woburn House, 84 St Benedicts Street, Norwich, NR2 4AB. Please ensure that your query is clear, particularly if it is a request for information about the data We hold about you (as under section 12, above).
- Changes to Our Privacy Policy
We may change this Privacy Policy from time to time (for example, if the law changes). Any changes will be immediately posted on Our Site and you will be deemed to have accepted the terms of the Privacy Policy on your first use of Our Site following the alterations. We recommend that you check this page regularly to keep up-to-date.
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
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Sign Up9:41 AM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
I Mark, I don’t think you’ve been a plonka at all. Regarding networking events, if you don’t go you wont know. I’ve been to plenty, made some very useful contacts and spent no more than the entrance fee and a the price of a few beers.
If there had been a property mentoring course back in 1989 that could have taught me everything I know now I’d have saved well into seven figures over the last 20+ years.
I’ve spoken to several people who have done a variety of courses with a variety of mentors. They have paid anything from zero to £50,000. These people haven’t all been plonka’s though, although there are a lot more plonka’s than people who rave about the value for money they have received. I met one guy who had spent £150,000 on property education and up-front
property sourcing fees and still didn’t own a buy to let property! Another “guru” even managed to persuade a lady that an evil spirit in her property was the reason she’d not been successful. Fortunately the guru’s partner was an exorcist then!
Very good examples of value for money are the Landlords Accreditation schemes run by NLA (National Landlords association), LLAS (London Landlords Accreditation Scheme) and MLAS (Midlands Landlord Accreditation Scheme). The ARLA courses are also considered to be very good value for money by thousands of letting agents.
I think the big question here is “how do you know who to trust before handing over any money?”
I’d suggest two things as an initial starting point.
1) If the “guru/mentor” can’t be found on Google, and isn’t being talked about by lots of people on a variety of forums and blogs, the likelihood is that they are a nobody and should be avoided.
2) If the “guru/mentor” can be found on Google, spend at least a few hours researching what other people say about them. Pay more attention to what other people are saying than what they say about themselves.
A very simple Google tip is to search the person and their company name and add the words Scam, or Complaint(s), rip off, fraud etc. Then do plenty of reading. Just because something
comes up in a search containing these words doesn’t mean that a person should be avoided. The article may relate to a different person with the same name or it could be an article they’ve written which talks about a scam. For example, if you search “Mark Alexander Scam” you will find everything from a person called Mark Alexander in America who sold a dodgy car to an article I wrote on Property118 about a scam that I exposed.
I’d be very interested to hear what other landlords think about property education and the due diligence they recommend before signing up to a course.
I will not publish name and shame comments – please see “what Property118 is not” >>> http://www.property118.com/index.php/what-property118-is-not/
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Sign Up10:07 AM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
I think you've hit the nail on the head Mark (A) - research is key and the devil truly is in the detail!
The only thing I can add is transparency. When researching property events/'gurus'/etc I look for openness, communication, &
accountability .
This property tribes blog says it all really : http://www.propertytribes.com/blog/top-6-in-the-property-transparency-league/
Mary Latham
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Sign Up10:24 AM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
Hahahahaha I have just Googled Mary Latham scam and the top 7 are all my posts on Property118 - Mark is this good or bad? hahahahahaha
Mary Latham
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Sign Up10:40 AM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
The proof of the pudding is in the comments delegates put on the feed back forms. Here is a message sent via face book from a delegate who attended an MLAS seminar in Birmingham yesterday
"Today was amazing... I have gone away gaining so much knowledge today. Thank you very much... kind regards...."
This delagate paid £150 for an 8 hour foundation seminar and is now accredited by MLAS. Delegates are expected to continue to learn and gain 50 CPD points over the next five years in order to become accredited for another 5 years. CPD can be gained in a variety of ways many of which are cost free. Accreditation based on education is becoming more and more popular and I think that we will see it grow very quickly in the next few years. Landlords cannot afford to let our tenants know more than we do these days and what is known as the LAS's model of accreditation is a quick and inexpensive fix. Landlords have to sign up to a Code of Conduct and may be subjected to the complaints procedure in the event that MLAS receive a complaint. There have been just 50 complaints over the last 5 years and this Autumn MLAS will celebrate its 2000th member. These members represent thousands of tenancies and most of the 50 complaints have been cleared up very quickly - I would say that this speaks very well for MLAS landlords.
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
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Sign Up17:05 PM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
I think I may have said it before Mary but the comments you get on those feedback forms are the best bit of free sales and marketing you could ever get. However, they are no good sat in a file somewhere, they need to be on the MLAS websites. Just add a tick box at the end of the form so that people can agree to using their names and comments on the MLAS website. Also, why not offer a way for course delegates to leave comments online like we are doing now?
Mary Latham
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Sign Up18:41 PM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
I agree Mark but have you ever tried walking up a wet mirror!
Paul Shears
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Sign Up19:04 PM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
Buyers beware folks!
Firstly I've only been to two of these property "seminars" and a few "finance" seminars.
The first was a property funding sales scam in Portsmouth some years ago from a very well-known company that stopped offering mortgages some time later.
The main, very confident and articulate speaker appeared to be flat broke and his 1960's purple "suit" was the sort of thing worn by the beetles pop group 20 years previously on the cover of Sargent Pepper’s lonely hearts club band.
It looked like it had been bought for 50 pence from a charity shop.
He also desperately needed a new set of false teeth as his own set looked like they had been intended for a different user!
He preached the doctrine of maximum leverage.
He claimed to be an ex English teacher who had made several million pounds from ridiculously high returns from his "portfolio" of flats in Brighton.
He had a very low opinion of tenants as “complainers”.
He showed us some pictures of the outside of some old flats which he said were in Brighton and he owned some of them.
I still can’t work out what that information was supposed to prove unless you just took it at face value.
I challenged him in a face to face discussion after the presentation on the returns he claimed he was making and pointed out that there was absolutely no way anyone could make half the rental returns he claimed in my own area of Winchester.
He told me that I needed to buy property in Brighton (which may well have been where he had some to sell desperately!).
I'm not sure whether he was suggesting that I sell up in Winchester and move to Brighton or use agents in Brighton but he clearly knew nothing of my personal circumstances except that I owned property before giving me this financial advice.
I deliberately looked away from this man who stood immediately in front of me for a moment as if I was distracted by something, and as expected, he took the opportunity to flee very rapidly indeed into the crowd.
I turned back, stood still, and watched him almost run around the perimeter of the room to put as much distance between the two of us as he could!
It was pathetic.
Just a few days ago I watched yet another "success story" internet video from a group called "R** & M***" about a northern chap who claimed to have about 18 properties up north worth a total of two million pounds in which he claimed to have £750,000 equity.
So an average of £111K each then.
From that he claimed he financed the £1.25 million pound debt and had £60K a year left over for him to live on in what was a part time job as a landlord.
This was all after re-mortgaging eight properties in the past year to buy another ten properties as a direct result of the education he received from R** & M***" at a cost of several thousand pounds.
You do the maths on that!
If you can't work out the simple arithmetic on this then my advice to you is don't become a landlord or even think about going on a course!
By the way, this successful landlord is now marketing himself as a mentor for others who might wish to invest through him.
I checked out his web site and since about January this year, which was when, judging from his video comments, it might well have been set up, the blog element was empty!
I also attended a property investment seminar in which one "property millionaire" presenter claimed to be the wife of a police sergeant (So you can trust her all the more for that and suspend you own critical judgement).
The lady provided no information on property investment whatsoever and just claimed to be a success.
A second presenter, a young man of about 25 years of age, who from his accent and appearance did not seem to be remotely English, claimed that he'd made five million pounds buying, renting & selling property in five years as a result of going on the training course that they were offering.
I raised my hand and asked if he had paid any capital gains tax on the sales he had made on the portfolio.
No one else up to this time had challenged anything that had been said.
He looked very nervous and replied (and remember this chap had already claimed to have gone on the training course that they were offering the audience) that he did not "understand anything about tax".
I replied that I did and he would incur considerable tax.
It was immediately after this public interaction that the organiser’s main speaker announced to the audience that it was really just a sales pitch for the property investment training course and so if anyone did not want to fork out several thousand pounds for a training course they could leave.
About 66% of the audience including myself left immediately and as we got up to leave, the presenter commented that "you just can't help some people".
I'd love to attend a seminar where the presenter knows as much as the lay man or is clearly not a crook looking for the stupid but so far this has not happened albeit in a very limited experience.
Obviously there are competent, intelligent & ethical people out there but there are also people who target idiots at minimum personal financial and non-financial cost using positive comments that simply do not stand up to the most basic analysis.
God help the poor naive investors who get sucked in with that group of sharks.
Lastly I note that these financial sales people never point out that in addition to the risks of too much leverage, which each landlord needs to ultimately assess with his or her own judgement, the landlord can find themselves swopping their previous full time job for a new one, that of managing properties with varying degrees of personal involvement.
Just what does the novice landlord do who knows nothing about a particular trade for example and can't get a reliable tradesman?
This has been my biggest problem by a mile and it almost always results in me fixing problems myself.
I heard no suggestion that this might be a problem to the people who were clearly past retirement age, or the widows that I met in the seminars that I attended.
Just the same dumbed down messages over & over again trying to brainwash the naive into handing over their money to the people they could trust because the presenters were so successful already.
I've also attended financial investment seminars in expensive venues of no intellectual merit whatsoever.
Presumably some members of the audiences did not agree with my perception or they would not be in the business.
I've had a few people comment to me after the presentation at these events how impressed they have been.
I've replied by asking the simple question "Can you give me one simple piece of concrete information that you've heard today that would cause you to invest your money with these people or some method that you propose to use to check out the validity of any of their claims?”
The reply has always been silence.
It's emotion that's driving the sucker’s behaviour and not the most basic intellectual analysis.
By the way, just to set myself up as a target, I make more monthly profit than any of the half dozen neighbours that I have that own investment property and all of us have had very little capital gain in the last few years.
Due to my reputation and personal involvement, I pay no advertising or agents fees and in the past two years although two tenants have moved out, I’ve had no void periods or loss of income.
My return on a £350K stake is £14,400 per annum less some very small overheads however I have high grade tenants and virtually nothing to do except to check my rental income each month.
It’s always paid early.
I'm preparing the next property for rental now and expect a similar return.
So get real folks or am I missing something here?
Paul Shears
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Sign Up20:34 PM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
Buyers beware folks!
Firstly I've only been to two of these property "seminars" and a few "finance" seminars.
The first was a property funding sales scam in Portsmouth some years ago from a very well-known company that stopped offering mortgages some time later.
The main, very confident and articulate speaker appeared to be flat broke and his 1960's purple "suit" was the sort of thing worn by the beetles pop group 20 years previously on the cover of Sargent Pepper’s lonely hearts club band.
It looked like it had been bought for 50 pence from a charity shop.
He also desperately needed a new set of false teeth as his own set looked like they had been intended for a different user!
He preached the doctrine of maximum leverage.
He claimed to be an ex English teacher who had made several million pounds from ridiculously high returns from his "portfolio" of flats in Brighton.
He had a very low opinion of tenants as “complainers”.
He showed us some pictures of the outside of some old flats which he said were in Brighton and he owned some of them.
I still can’t work out what that information was supposed to prove unless you just took it at face value.
I challenged him in a face to face discussion after the presentation on the returns he claimed he was making and pointed out that there was absolutely no way anyone could make half the rental returns he claimed in my own area of Winchester.
He told me that I needed to buy property in Brighton (which may well have been where he had some to sell desperately!).
I'm not sure whether he was suggesting that I sell up in Winchester and move to Brighton or use agents in Brighton but he clearly knew nothing of my personal circumstances except that I owned property before giving me this financial advice.
I deliberately looked away from this man who stood immediately in front of me for a moment as if I was distracted by something, and as expected he took the opportunity to flee very rapidly indeed into the crowd.
I turned back, stood still and watched him almost run around the perimeter of the room to put as much distance between the two of us as he could!
It was pathetic.
Just a few days ago I watched yet another "success story" internet video from a group called "R** & M***" about a northern chap who claimed to have about 18 properties up north worth a total of two million pounds in which he claimed to have £750,000 equity.
So an average of £111K each then.
From that he claimed he financed the £1.25 million pound debt and had £60K a year left over for him to live on in what was a part time job as a landlord.
This was all after re-mortgaging eight properties in the past year to buy another ten properties as a direct result of the education he received from R** & M***" at a cost of several thousand pounds.
You do the maths on that!
If you can't work out the simple arithmetic on this then my advice to you is don't become a landlord or even think about going on a course!
By the way, this successful landlord is now marketing himself as a mentor for others who might wish to invest through him.
I checked out his web site and since about January this year, which was when, judging from his video comments, it might well have been set up, the blog element was empty!
I also attended a property investment seminar in which one "property millionaire" presenter claimed to be the wife of a police sergeant (So you can trust her all the more for that and suspend you own critical judgement).
The lady provided no information on property investment whatsoever and just claimed to be a success.
A second presenter, a young man of about 25 years of age, who from his accent and appearance did not seem to be remotely English, claimed that he'd made five million pounds buying, renting & selling property in five years as a result of going on the training course that they were offering.
I raised my hand and asked if he had paid any capital gains tax on the sales he had made on the portfolio.
He looked very nervous and replied (and remember this chap had already claimed to have gone on the training course that they were offering the audience) that he did not "understand anything about tax".
I replied that I did and he would incur considerable tax.
It was immediately after this public interaction that the organiser’s main speaker announced to the audience that it was really just a sales pitch for the property investment training course and so if anyone did not want to fork out several thousand pounds for a training course they could leave.
About 66% of the audience including myself left immediately and as we got up to leave, the presenter commented that "you just can't help some people".
I'd love to attend a seminar where the presenter knows as much as the lay man or is clearly not a crook looking for the stupid but so far this has not happened albeit in a very limited experience.
Obviously there are competent, intelligent & ethical people out there but there are also people who target idiots at minimum personal financial and non-financial cost using positive comments that simply do not stand up to the most basic analysis.
God help the poor naive investors who get sucked in with that group of sharks.
Lastly I note that these financial sales people never point out that in addition to the risks of too much leverage, which each landlord needs to ultimately assess with his or her own judgement, the landlord can find themselves swopping their previous full time job for a new one, that of managing properties with varying degrees of personal involvement.
Just what does the novice landlord do who knows nothing about a particular trade for example and can't get a reliable tradesman?
This has been my biggest problem by a mile and it almost always results in me fixing problems myself.
I heard no suggestion that this might be a problem to the people who were clearly past retirement age, or the widows that I met in the seminars that I attended.
Just the same dumbed down messages over & over again trying to brainwash the naive into handing over their money to the people they could trust because the presenters were so successful already.
I've also attended financial investment seminars in expensive venues of no intellectual merit whatsoever.
Presumably some members of the audiences did not agree with my perception or they would not be in the business.
I've had a few people comment to me after the presentation at these events how impressed they have been.
I've replied by asking the simple question "Can you give me one simple piece of concrete information that you've heard today that would cause you to invest your money with these people or some method that you propose to use to check out the validity of any of their claims?”
The reply has always been silence.
It's emotion that's driving the sucker’s behaviour and not the most basic intellectual analysis.
By the way, just to set myself up as a target, I make more monthly profit than any of the half dozen neighbours that I have that own investment property and all of us have had very little capital gain in the last few years.
Due to my reputation and involvement, I pay no advertising or agents fees and in the past two years although two tenants have moved out, I’ve had no void periods or loss of income.
My return on a £350K stake is £14,400 per annum less some very small overheads however I have high grade tenants and virtually nothing to do except to check my rental income each month.
It’s always paid early.
So get real folks or am I missing something here?
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
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Sign Up21:47 PM, 26th July 2012, About 12 years ago
Hi Paul
Thank you for your long and considered response.
I can assure you that not all presentations are like that. I retired from the finance industry in 2009 but the year before that I did 33 seminars, all at exclusive venues. They were all free, no upsell and we even provided very grand buffet lunches. Some of the seminars attracted upwards of 500 people. The property investment strategy I shared was no different
Why did we do it you might ask!
We were flying high at the time, we were 38th in The Times Profit Track 100. The seminars were nothing more than a publicity stunt to showcase our business. That business was The Money Centre (UK) Plc.
We withdrew from the market in 2009 when the true effects of the securitisation market freeze hit the UK buy to let mortgage financiers. The company now sits dormant. I wish you had been to one of those seminars.
I have been to the type of events you speak of too. I also ask the awkward questions. Fun isn't it, in a sadistic sort of way? LOL
I still pity the suckers who part with their money and hope they find us here before it's too late. Will they listen though or will they prefer to be bamboozled by the slick salesman in the shiny suit who convinces them "this time next year Rodders you will be a millionaire my son, just listen to Delboy".
Regards
Mark
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Sign Up11:50 AM, 27th July 2012, About 12 years ago
Hi Mark,
Most property networking meetings have a sales agenda, which makes them inauthentic in my view.
They tend to sell sizzle instead of steak. You have to pay big fees, usually upfront, to see the steak ... and then the steak is often well past its sell by date! i.e. still going on about no money down deals and buying properties for a £1 ... 🙂
If you can buy property with NMD and for £1, why would you stand in a hotel telling others how to do it. Wouldn't you be doing it yourself? And why would you sell what amounts to the six numbers to the lottery for a few grand?
Over on Property Tribes, I posted the suggestion for some kind of "Trip Advisor" site for networking and seminars, where these were ranked by delegates.
http://www.propertytribes.com/showthread.php?tid=5951
It's important to differentiate between the "wealth creation" industry and the property investment industry as they have nothing whatsoever to do with each other imho.
There are no short cuts to wealth ... but people will stars in their eyes will pay for seminars and portfolio building services because they believe a dream, not reality ... or greed takes over from common sense!!