9:41 AM, 24th August 2019, About 5 years ago 24
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On another Property118 forum thread I stated …
“We are all agreed that if somebody hasn’t got money they will not suddenly find some if you successfully sue them.
What’s even worse though is feeling there is no justice.
If Anarchy ruled in the UK most people would leave.
It is a perception of safety and justice that makes the UK such a desirable for place for people from other Countries to want to live.
However, anarchy does appear to rule in the PRS. If rogue tenants decide to destroy a landlords property they can do so with a feeling of impunity. Worse still, they may even be rewarded with alternative social housing.
Is it any wonder that “NO DSS” became such a popular phrase given this situation? Why would anybody in their right mind take the risk of housing somebody with no money AND knowing that justice is extremely unlikely to be served if that tenant causes criminal damage to their property?
Likewise, regardless of funds raised through Selective Licencing and law upon law being created to regulate landlords, enforcement is appalling. This plays into the hands of the criminals who operate below the radar, mainly housing the most vulnerable people in squalid conditions, i.e. in properties which are badly damaged, filthy and dangerous – even before a new tenants goes in. They get away with it because they are not registered anywhere. There tenants do not dare to complain, because these criminals wont just kick them out, they might even cause physical harm to anybody (and those close to them) who might dare to “grass them up”.
If you look at actual prosecutions you will see they are against soft targets, not real criminals. I suspect there are more fines for not having a licence in most Selective Licensing areas than anything else. Next on the list of prosecutions are likely to be other minor offences, such as no gas safety certificate or EPC, and we see fines of £30,000 being imposed for such offences whilst the true criminals carry on as before.”
Giles Peaker of Anthony Gold Solicitors and founder of the Nearly Legal website also posted on the same thread to say …
“I’d completely agree that the police are hopeless in most tenancy related offences (criminal damage, illegal eviction and so on). “
he went on to say …
“But that is about the police, rather than the law – the law is there. I certainly sympathise with those frustrated with how it is approached (or rather not approached) by the police.”
These comments were in response to another person commenting on the same thread. However, in direct response to my questions to him, Giles responded …
“The law is already there. I’ve spent some considerable time in the past (unpaid!) trying to get police educated and trained on tenancy matters, with limited effect. I think the cuts in police numbers have just made things worse, as they try not to get involved in what they see as minor matters.
I have also raised it directly and indirectly with MPs. Some at least are aware, but again, it is not a legislative issue, it is about police operational priorities, training and resources.
Perhaps it is something people could lobby their local Police and Crime Commissioner about?”
MY CONCLUSION
The Police and the CPS all too regularly choose to turn a blind eye (or at least a deaf ear) to reports from private landlords of criminal damage to property caused by tenants. It also seems to me that the authorities use what little funding they have to tackle anything but the worst criminals, whether they are landlords or tenants.
Therefore, the Police and the CPS are at least partially responsible (and to a great extent in my opinion) for GOOD landlords and Agents feeling they have no choice other than to state “No DSS”. This is not born out of discrimination, as Shelter would like people to believe. It is about the Authorities using their resources for pretty much anything other than prosecuting violent and/or destructive criminals, and thus leaving the PRS in a state of Anarchy. For example, it is been alleged that Nottingham Council recently used funds from Landlord Licensing to sponsor a local Carnival. Are there no criminals providing unsafe housing to illegal immigrants and other vulnerable groups in Nottingham?
Anyhow, these are my views. What are yours?
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Tim C
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Sign Up12:31 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 27/08/2019 - 10:55
I think so much depends on location not only for capital growth but effectivness and corruptness of councils / police etc which can tarnish your whole experiences of being a LL.
I stupidly bought a number of houses in a blighted pit village. UC tenants, arrears, houses trashed the day they come empty, negative capital growth, hard left LL hating council. Usually not worth reporting break ins other than to get a crime reference although mostly not worth claiming on the insurance as will send the premia soaring! Makes you despair!
Most of my other houses are in a good university city with working professionals, solid capital growth, and nil rent arrears. Happy Landlording!
Even in this area I found the police a complete waste of time. About 5 years ago I had a large house completely trashed by a criminal outfit that converted the place into a commercial growing operation. I became suspicious and reported the strong smell to the police a number of times even when one of the boards they had used to cover up the windows inside fell off and you could see the lights! I was forced to take all the way to high court enforcement and the police did not even attend when the bailiff reported the operation when we finally got in! I had to take all the equipment apart myself!!
I try to keep my houses in good condition so as not to fall foul of authorities at any cost. As a LL you are a non person in modern Britian! You have utterly no protection from the authorities as have no lobbying power.
I think the only way to be a LL now is to take yourself out of stressfull sitations and live somewhere nice. I moved to the deep country a while ago and are much happier now! If I didn't have aging parents I would live somewhere warm where enterprise and personal responsibility is actually encouraged!!
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
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Sign Up12:59 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
Here's a summary of my tale of woe ...
"she got all the local druggies to collect all the bin bags off the estate and tip the rubbish in the house. The stench was over-whelming, three of the clean up team literally threw up, one refused to go back into the house. 23 skips were filled in all and I was down 18 months on rent."
Needless to say, the Police did nothing. They said it was a "civil matter"
You can read the full story here >>> https://www.property118.com/perfect-tenant-evicted-prostitute/
Mick Roberts
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Sign Up14:26 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
That's exactly it Mark.
A lot of us Nottingham Landlords have no criminal record-To which some high up people were surprised when we sent our criminal record checks in, after all the anti Licensing screaming we were doing-But now we are genuinely concerned, that soon we may end up with a record, for some daft new bought in raft of laws, that are supposedly there to protect the tenant, but to some of us, seem a pointless paper exercise putting more time pressure on Landlord, deviating Landlord away from doing the good stuff they should be doing.
One example I'm telling me tenants now when I say I've had enough is I'm at risk of going prison or £30,000 fine cause tenant has took batteries out smoke alarm for the kids toy. And the non Landlord people have no idea we subject to this Draconian anti Landlord legislation.
angela
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Sign Up15:42 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
Reply to the comment left by MoodyMolls at 27/08/2019 - 12:28
absolutely correct on all points but dont blame cops, its a fine line between damage and civil issues, the DCC of cleveland police, a small force, just tweeted in a week the had 1000 calls for service, its is a very run down area. Even an alleged easy call can take hours, ie a missing person can tie up several officers for days, a simple RTC again hours, so by the time you look at how many are on duty over a 24 hour period, its around 140 cops for the whole county, their numbers have dropped by thousand, in this tory government. Not excusing but things like using mobile phone tickets have dropped through the floor. but going back to being a landlord, its hard being responsible for other peoples living conditions, a real responsibility and I dont think a lot of people realise that when they take this role on, its like looking after extended family
Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118
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Sign Up16:22 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
Reply to the comment left by angela at 27/08/2019 - 15:42
Just to play Devils Advocate, what if the fatal RTA the Police were attending could have been avoided as a result of the having followed up on the landlords reports of a Cannabis Factory in their property rented by the drug dealers who sold the joint to the person who caused the fatal RTA?
I accept the Police are under-funded but I cannot and will not accept that reports of crimes by landlords should be treated any differently to reports of crimes by any other business or member of the public.
Luke P
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Sign Up16:52 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 27/08/2019 - 16:22
Here's a quick thought - we all accept that as budgets/resources are squeezed, prioritising has to take place, but...instead of dealing with the most serious of crime, say, murder (which only affects are comparatively tiny number of people infrequently), why do we not deal with *everything but* the most serious of crime, which, in all probability, would, as in Mark's scenario, prevent further knock-on/future, escalating crimes. In the example of murder, many are committed by relatives as a crime of passion and not particularly preventable, whereas other crimes are indeed preventable. We've already tried the 'conventional' way and vast swathes of the public effectively receive no service with burglaries, break-ins and robberies rife, so perhaps time for a change? Who knows, it might even work...!!
MoodyMolls
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Sign Up17:41 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
I think we should bring back the death penalty via Injection for serial murders.
Prisons are over crowded, cost a fortune and if the papers are to be believed run by the inmates.
We need a much stronger penalty to make them think twice then crime might decrease.
Monty Bodkin
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Sign Up18:15 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
Reply to the comment left by MoodyMolls at 27/08/2019 - 17:41
Give it a rest Kathy.
There is only a tenuous relevance to the subject and it's like catnip to the Anti's.
Imagine the headline in the Graun;
"Landlords say bring back the death penalty -proof that section 21 should be scrapped".
Chris @ Possession Friend
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Sign Up18:18 PM, 27th August 2019, About 5 years ago
Reply to the comment left by angela at 27/08/2019 - 15:42Angela,
as a retired Police officer, let me tell you in most cases, its No "fine " line.
Everybody got competing demands, but usually, a blatant crime by a tenant is a defendant 'on a plate' about the least work for a conviction as is possible. !
I've had a Tenant steal carpets and blinds - only for the local Constabulary ( who I made it known that I was a serving officer at the time ! ) to 'write if off as a Civil matter. - so if they can't nick a Criminal tenant who's sh*t on one of their own, what chance do Landlords think they have ?
A complaint against Police, initially investigated by Civilian investigator ( - yes, its not just PCSO's that they're economising on ) who tried to write it off, before a Detective Inspector called the officers out for what they were and stated there was a learning gap in Housing law for the Police..
terry sullivan
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Sign Up9:14 AM, 31st August 2019, About 5 years ago
police are not underfunded--just very wasteful