Next Step ICE complaint?

Next Step ICE complaint?

10:10 AM, 19th July 2021, About 3 years ago 22

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A tenant moved into a flat in August 2020. Universal Credit set up direct payments to Landlord as agreed (also requested by tenant as history with gambling etc).

It transpires in April UC asked the tenant for a copy of the tenancy agreement as evidence of tenancy etc, but he didn’t act. Direct rent payments stopped in late May as a result. I ask the tenant to show UC the TA. Nothing happens, direct payments are still stopped. I contact District Partnership Managers attaching a copy of the TA myself and fill in (two) UC47’s over a period of the month.

I then get an email from UC:
‘I have forwarded your email to the case manager to see if we can backdate the housing costs.
The reason we have been unable to implement the direct payment to you is that despite several attempts, we were unable to get verification of rent from the claimant. We will now need to request backdating. Are you aware of any reasons as to why the claimant was unable to supply verification of his rent, does he have any designated support workers or any additional support with his tenancy?

I explained that there is no reason at all why he hasn’t bothered and clearly as he is getting his other benefits it’s a case of ‘I’m all right Jack’ and tell them to accept the TA as attached. I remind them they agreed to pay me directly from the start (and as written in the TA that direct payment is part of the contract) so they HAVE to pay the backdate (not just request it!) and need to re-establish rent payments going forward again.

Question – is this a matter for an ICE (independent case examiner) complaint now? or is there another level in the DWP I have to address this to first?

Month four no rent and no indication either that they are looking to re-establish direct payments going forward either. As they pay ALL his housing costs they should be liable to pay all the backdates in one payment back to me surely? They agreed to a contract to pay me on behalf of their client direct, and they are the ones that have failed irrespective of what their client did or didn’t do – after all it was part of the reason why the direct payment was agreed in the first place – to ensure the landlord was paid and tenancy secured because he was ‘a high risk’! AUGH!

DSR


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Mick Roberts

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11:17 AM, 29th July 2021, About 3 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Bill irvine at 29/07/2021 - 10:16
Bill,
And all they had to do was ask Landlord for proof of rent din't they. But Oh no, DWP wun't DARE COMMUNICATE WITH LANDLORD, they'd rather waste billions of taxpayers money paying false wrongful claims. Oh I see, u say this too as I read on.
As I've said before, UC paying me for house I've sold & acknowledge there is no way for Landlord to tell them.
I've just found out this week, when a tenant is in arrears & arrears cleared up & tenant being good, & I want to tell UC to stop deductions from tenants own benefit, UC give us no way of telling UC. I don't know what I'm going to do with this good tenant when arrears cleared up shortly.

Bill irvine

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12:41 PM, 29th July 2021, About 3 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mick Roberts at 29/07/2021 - 11:17
Hi Mick

As I explained in my earlier post "backdating" is a term normally attached to "New" claims, where for some reasons the claimant/tenant delayed making their online claim.

In such cases, relating to UC, backdates can only be awarded in prescribed situations. DWP doesn't have the same discretion used by councils. That's, most probably, why your requests have been refused.

DSR's situation is completely different, as there is in place, an existing award of UC where the housing costs element is missing due to the tenant failing to provide a copy of his TA. In these situations, if the tenant cooperates by providing the info, within 1 month, the award will be revised to allow payment of the HCE. If he/she delays beyond the month, they'll be asked to explain why before a decision is made about the effective date of the revised award.

Revision can also apply to cases where DWP has wrongly assessed the claim from the outset. One such case, I was involved with, produced a one off award of £25000 for a disabled tenant https://universalcreditadvice.com/news/tenant-rejects-dwp-advice-and-is-rewarded-by-25000-windfall/

Revision can also apply when DWP decide to suspend a claim (pending investigation of the facts). Once the information has been provided, sometimes months later, the revised decision normally restores the award in full, resulting in substantial payments.

In the case of overpayments, I challenge these on a regular basis, on the basis the Decision Maker had no grounds for revising the decision to stop payment and try and recoup the overpayment from my landlord client on the basis - "they could reasonably have known their tenant had vacated". The onus is on the Council or DWP to prove heir case in these circumstances.

So, contrary to your suggestion, "backdates" and/or retrospective "revisions" can be achieved if you know the prescribed rules and associated criteria and can present the facts and evidence succinctly.

Bill

Mick Roberts

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12:51 PM, 29th July 2021, About 3 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Bill irvine at 29/07/2021 - 12:41
That's it Bill,
You're the man of knowledge, u know all the regs backwards, us mere mortals do our best arguing with the most stupid people on the planet & I have to confess, they beating me down with their stupidity.

This is DWP if people can spread & get in on News at Ten:

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Smart people learn from everything and everyone
Average ones from experience
Stupid ones have all the answers.

It means a “smart person” will never miss an opportunity to learn something. If that means learning from some “bum” on the street, or a Harvard law professor, or some janitor that cleans his office late at night. He will keep his mouth shut, and listen. He knows he doesn't have all the answers all the time. So he doesn't miss the opportunity to learn it.

The “average man” will learn through trial and error. They would rather try it out and figure it out it didn't work out the first time, and why, and works on the same thing several times over until he gets it just right. Which isn't nessesarily a bad thing. But if he asked for help, if he thought through it a little more, he might have got it right the first time. Or what I like to say,” if he listened to his wife the first time she asked…” haha!!

The stupid man… has no room to learn. He's under the impression he's right. All the time. He has no reason to listen. No reason to learn. No reason to do trials, no reason to ask questions. He just does it, and says it works when it doesn't. He thinks he has the answers, but that's not the case. By any means. And he's certainly the one the loudest about it. Fighting the most to prove his point is right when it really isn't, but he won't care he isn't right, won't admit he's wrong, and certainly won't be apologetic.

Reluctant Landlord

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13:04 PM, 29th July 2021, About 3 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Bill irvine at 29/07/2021 - 12:41
fascinating stuff! Bill you are certainly the oracle of all things DWP!
I am assuming all the prescribed rules/ how the DWP are required to act (or not act as the case may be ;0)), the criteria for which they must follow when they make their 'judgement' MUST be available somewhere in the public domain?

Bill irvine

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13:50 PM, 29th July 2021, About 3 years ago

Hi DSR

It is, but is not accessible in one composite document. Instead, you need to examine a range of Statutory Instruments, Upper-tier caselaw and DWP guidance produced on gov.uk and its Advice to Decision Makers Guide. Great reading for insomniacs!

Bill

Reluctant Landlord

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15:40 PM, 29th July 2021, About 3 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Bill irvine at 29/07/2021 - 13:50
well that certainly applies to me. Sleepless nights worrying about tenants is par for the course 🙁

I'll get searching thanks!

Reluctant Landlord

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17:11 PM, 30th July 2021, About 3 years ago

UPDATE - payout!

After endless emails, and eventually getting them to see sense, (thanks Bill am sure some of your wording helped) UC have now paid out for the FOUR months of no rent owed.

All this because the tenant couldn't be bothered to send them/show them a copy of the TA to confirm his claim.
If only there were a VERY BLEEDIN' SIMPLE PROCESS whereby a LL could simply send a copy of every TA to UC at the start of the tenancy/claim as PROOF.
Well jeez that's a good idea that will take seconds but save vast time, effort and piggin' stress.
AUGH!!!!

Bill irvine

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17:29 PM, 30th July 2021, About 3 years ago

Reply to the comment left by DSR at 30/07/2021 - 17:11
Hi DSR,

Delighted to hear you secured the desired result. Patience and perseverance are essential when dealing with DWP.

As you suggest, DWP should ask private landlords to confirm the fact:

a) A new tenancy has been created, with details of the AST or accept a letter, confirming the key points; tenant's name, address of property, number of rooms and level of charge; and
b) A new rental charge (change in circumstances) is now applicable; and
c) The tenant has temporarily moved into hospital, residential care home, prison or has permanently vacated; and
d) The tenant still remains in occupation; and
e) The tenant has accrued £xxx rent arrears, in breach of their AST, putting their tenancy in jeopardy and creating the threat of repossession action.

If they started applying these practices it would vastly improve processing times, the accuracy of awards, reduce the £6 Billion per annum overpayment fiasco recently reported by the national Audit Office (NAO) and ensure public monies are used for the purposes they were designed i.e. reducing or extinguishing the tenant's rent liability.

Mick Roberts

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18:22 PM, 30th July 2021, About 3 years ago

Reply to the comment left by DSR at 30/07/2021 - 17:11
Exactly DSR. And Bill says the same. The old HB system that worked wun't do anything without asking Landlord Does tenant live there and how much etc.

I've had that many rents wrong with UC cause tenant got confused on top up and weekly to monthly etc.

As u say, just ask the Landlord. Could stop so much fraud. Tenants are pocketing billions cause very important Landlord is being excluded from the checking process. We could save taxpayer billions. It's mind boggling

Reluctant Landlord

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14:29 PM, 10th August 2021, About 3 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Bill irvine at 20/07/2021 - 08:32
I need to follow this up as a formal complaint. if I go through this link https://makeacomplaint.dwp.gov.uk/ ..then go to UC section it says to click a link..
that link brings you to the page headed

Make a complaint
If you are a Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) or Universal Credit (UC) customer you can complain online. If you are not a JSA or UC customer, please contact your local Jobcentre Plus.

I am not a UC customer so I click the Jobsentre plus link....and hey presto it brings me back to the start. AUGH!

What do I need to start the first level of formal complaint please? Do I need to enter my details or the tenants details as it ask for NI numbers etc???

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