New Electrical Installation Condition Report Rules July 2020?

Reply to the comment left by UKPN at 14/08/2020 - 09:43
Hi Dave S

The law states that you have 28 days to rectify any C1 Or C2 issues raised within the DEICR.
You don’t need to use the same Electrical contractor to conduct the remedial work.

You can also replace parts within the old consumer unit to meet the requirements for additional protection via RCDs or install individual RCD’s where required.

The cost does sound very high for a small consumer unit.

My advise would be
1 : Ask the agents if their contractor is on the government Competent persons scheme electrical able to conduct inspections in the private rental sector.
If not did they confirm and provide evidence that the person ( not just the QS) conducting the report was qualified to carry them out.
(C&G 2391 ,2395 or similar qualifications in inspection and testing of existing installation and not initial inspection and testing, as this is for new installations only)

Please note: both the inspector and the qualified supervisor need to be qualified.
The qualified supervisor oversees the test results and is responsible for compliance. Some companies use under qualified contractors or staff to conduct the report
And it’s only the QS that holds the qualifications.

2: Advise the agents that you have 28 days to rectify the issues.
You are allowed to let the property before the work is carried out, however you are the person responsible for the installations safety.

3: Ask other electrical contractors to quote for the remedial work that needed to pass the DEICR.

4: Once the remedial work is completed the contractor should issue you a installation certificate or minor works certificate. These are then held with the original DEICR and will Satisfy the requirements. You don’t need a second Inspection.
However if you believe that the original report is not a true Representation then you may want to ask for a second opinion
And DEICR from the contractor conducting the remedial work.

If you do change the consumer unit the contractor needs to notify your local Building control and issue you a compliance certificate (part P).

You can find electrical contractors on the same government website competent person scheme (electrical installations) And on the same website check that they are also approved to conduct the electrical inspection in the private rented sector.

The NICEIC also show members that are qualified to conduct both.
Generally approved contractors and not domestic installers.
If a Domestic installer wants to conduct the DEICR reports, then NICEIC requires them to have an additional Assessments before they can be government approved.

If a electrical contacted conducts DEICR it may be outside the scope of their scheme (For example NICEIC, NAPIT) that covers The work they are allowed to do. They will them use a off the shelf generic forms/certificates or a certificate App.

If the certificates you get are green this is a generic version, however some apps produce colour versions.

I hope this helps

Reply to the comment left by Dave S at 14/08/2020 - 09:34
Hi Dave S,
I left you some advise on the chat

Reply to the comment left by Appcon at 14/08/2020 - 15:44
Appcon

Thank you so much for your advice 👍

Reply to the comment left by UKPN at 13/08/2020 - 23:31
Hi UKPN,

The wording on the report is correct and has come directly from the institution of engineering and Technology. This is the organisation responsible for compiling the electrical wiring regulations.

The joint IET/BSI Technical committee is responsible for the content and is made up of 56 different organisations, senior electrical engineers and Government bodies such as the Health and Safety Executive.
This is the reason why the new law is based on the work being carried out continuously by the IET & it’s members. It first published the wiring regulations in 1882 and has covered periodic inspection in many editions.
Once a new edition or amendment is complied It’s open to the industry and public to make comments before publishing.

So the electrician was correct when they quoted change of occupancy or 5 years.
5 years is the maximum time between inspections and can be reduced if the inspector has concerns.

Many within the industry agree with your point of view, it does seem over the top to conduct a DEICR every time a change of occupancy happens within a few months of the last.
Unfortunately the law is clear on this point and states a inspection is carried out before any new specified tenancy, it doesn’t state a minimum timescale. So if it a short term specified tenancy it is what is and should be inspected.
This is because the previous tenants could have damaged the electrical installation due to misuse or by a deliberate act.

A better approach would be to have a good standard of inspection carried out for the DEICR and the a visual inspection between short term tenancies until the next DEICR due date.
This would require a good working relationship between the inspectors and landlords and the landlords could demonstrate that their installation is under constant electrical maintenance schedule.

There is also a need to tighten up the law surrounding who can carry out the inspections. As I’ve seen so many reports with little or no information on them and comments like needs a rewire or a basic misunderstanding of coding. Many of these online companies carry out a drive by reporting, put simply they only make a note of the circuits with little testing before failing the property and moving onto the next installation.
Or they use sampling, test one circuit and base the full report on that one circuit. Sampling is meant for large installation under regular electrical maintenance, for example a large office building or supermarket.
A properly conducted inspection on a small flat should take a 3 to 4 hours plus time writing the report. This should include a comprehensive schedule of test results for each circuit.
A sign to look out for is a company that says its engineers are registered with lots of the electrical bodies, yet when you check their Company name against the register for there scheme they don’t show up and they are just sub contracting the inspections out to under qualified persons.

The point you raised about the NICEIC , NAPIT and other governing bodies and what use they are.
These bodies run the competent person schemes allowing electoral contractors to self certificate without the need to involve building control.
They are also responsible for maintaining standards of their members and auditing them on a yearly basis, checking insurances, qualifications, record keeping and the certification issued. Also conducting investigation into complaints and non compliant installation work.

This is why you should alway insist on certification issued via a registered schemes and not an off the shelf certificate. That way you know that you can complain directly to the contractors governing body and they will have a record of the certification in question.

Electricians marking their own homework
What could possiby go wrong?

Reply to the comment left by Appcon at 14/08/2020 - 15:44
Hi Appcon, thanks for that very informative comment.

I had my EICR done in June for a 4 bed semi-detached house by a NICEIC registered electrician. His qualifications under NICEIC are (1) Approved Contractor (2) Domestic Installer (3) PAT. Initially, his firm or trading name was not showing on the NICEIC database so I phoned NICEIC to query this and they confirmed that he was indeed registered under his own name and that he was qualified to carry out an EICR on my property. However, since reading your comment, two things have puzzled me. First that he is not showing up under the government's Competent Persons scheme Electrical and second that the certificate he gave me is a green certificate, which you are indicating is issued by contractors not qualified to do this work. Or have I misunderstood?

In a way it is academic because I have ceased being a landlord and the house in question is no longer used as an HMO but as a private residence (council have been informed). But I am nevertheless observing all the safety procedures that I used to follow while it was an HMO.

Reply to the comment left by Frederick Morrow-Ahmed at 15/08/2020 - 15:31
Hi Frederick,

There could be a few reasons for issuing a green form and not showing at first on the NICEIC register.
When contractors first al apply to join the NICEIC Or applies for an upgrade to Approved contractor they are allowed to
The green forms until they have been Approved.
Once they have been approved they gain access to the full range of certificates they have been approved to conduct.
For example domestic installers have access to a limited range of basic certificates in purple (4 different certificate templates) These exclude Domestic electrical installation condition reporting.

Approved contractors have access to the full range of certificate templates in red (15 different certificate template) including Domestic and commercial installation condition reporting.

If a certificate is outside their scope or before they are approved then the can still gain access to green certificates.
So the contractor may have been in a transitional period.
Secondly,
There is no rules under the NiCEIC to use their certification. As the certificates are based on the standard format within BS7671 (the wiring regulations).
This would be unusual not to use them as it’s a recognisable body and gives confidence to the end user. However if they don’t use them, this is a break in the audit trail and may not be viewed NICEIC area engineer in the yearly office audit. Once a year all Domestic installer have a half day audit and assessment. The area engineer will also visit two site to check test results.
Approved contractors are audited for one day with 3 sites visited and again test results checked.
The Qualified Supervisors also have their qualifications checked.

The Government competent person scheme for inspection and testing within the private rented sector was introduced in June 2020.
To join the scheme the contractor needs to apply through their governing bodies and agree to new compliance rules, such as increased professional indemnity insurance no less than £250,000 and hold qualifications inspections and testing.
Approved contractors are deemed to meet this criteria but still need to apply.
Domestic installers can apply once they have demonstrated compliance and need they to be assessed by an area engineer and qualifications checked before they gain access to the Government competent person scheme.

Reply to the comment left by Appcon at 16/08/2020 - 22:52
Thanks for the response.

Do you mean that if he uses a green form then there is a break in the audit trail and (his work) may not be viewed (by a) NICEIC area engineer in the yearly office audit?

Also, on Checkatrade he had Public Liability Insurance of £2million. I asked him if he had Professional Indemnity Insurance and he said he didn't need it. Earlier, when speaking to NICEIC I asked them if they check if their registered electricians have the required insurance they said yes so I accepted what he said.

Reply to the comment left by Frederick Morrow-Ahmed at 18/08/2020 - 13:54
Sorry for the delay,
If they don’t have professional indemnity insurance then their work as a inspector is not covered and is not insured. Only Their installation work would be covered under public liability insurance.

Yes, green certificates are generic so may not show in a yearly audit, unless the contractor chooses to declare them.

If they have used the NICEIC’s approved contractors own software they should be red or if they are approved to carry them out under their domestic installers (which is doubtful) they would issue a purple certificates. If they are green it’s outside their scope of work.
Approved Contractors can use generic certificates but they are normally off the shelf or online apps. if they don’t use their schemes Certificate then it’s likely they won’t show in an audit, as their scheme won’t have a copy.
If you use the NICEIC own online certificates service they have access to all the information and certificates created by their contractors and they are held on the NICEIC servers.
If in doubt ask the NICEIC what the difference in colours mean.

Reply to the comment left by Appcon at 23/08/2020 - 20:47
Thanks for that detailed reply. It's like a spaghetti. We have had NICEIC for a long time and customers thought of that as the gold standard. Then we had Alecsa and Napit and goodness knows what else. Now to cap it all, we have the government's own Competent Person's list. What we have had for a long time are incompetent governments.

Anyway, thanks for your learned opinion. Much appreciated.