Mary Latham questions landlords rights to reposess

Mark please see my reply to Ben. Why would these landlord allow a tenant to believe that they were going to be able to make a long term home in the property if it was not their intention to let them do so?

Puzzler my point is that if the landlord wants a long term tenant and he gets a good tenant who is prepared to stay long term he would not evict him. Landlords in this situation only use S21 to remove bad tenants without the hassle of S8.

Because they have no morals? I've seen it done TWICE to my PA

They also have no sense - they are just asking for unwanted hassle, quite apart from the disruption they are causing to peoples lives. So what is the answer? How can we protect tenants from this type of landlord without putting further burdens on good landlords?

No you arent being 'Nieve' Mary, but you may be being 'Naive' haha Damn that sticky keyboard.

Yes what seems to be coming out of this interesting dialogue is the possibility of landlord and tenant matching, which is a nice idea.

I stress again though that amateur landlords are a difficult prospect, not necessarily because of any intent but because often their finances are precarious too and when they fluctuate it immediately knocks on to the tenant. I'll match you with a personal anecdote.

When my 10 year relationship broke up I was forced to rent. I hate it. A year later I met the lovely Frazzles and after a year we decided to get a place together. The landlord, a charity worker based in New Zealand offered through the letting agents a nice little flat saying it would be for 2 years at least, so we signed on the dotted line, a 12 month contract with a 6 month break clause. Standard fare but the landlord had given his assurance. 4 months in we got an email in thanking us for being wonderful tenants but informing us that he was finishing his contract early and was invoking the break clause and we had to move out so he could move back in. Even after this stab in the back we didnt want to force him through the eviction process and so struggled to find the only place we could get at short notice. it cost us an arm and a leg to relocate just a few months after moving in and the cheeky sod held onto our deposit for the full 10 days allowed, even though there was no dispute.

It also transpired that he wasnt moving back in but selling. The agents, the lovely Bushells of East Dulwich were also incensed that he had lied to them too and so refused to sell his property for him. A nice, honourable and rare bit of solidarity from an agent.

Now on that story tied to your point about breaking a stated intention there already is a legal principle for that, it's called 'Promissory Estoppel', that involves a party to an agreement being effectively stopped (Estoppel) from taking action which contravenes an earlier promise or understanding between 2 parties to an agreement. The trouble would be in proving the understanding to the satisfaction of a court in any defence proceedings and what such a defence would do to a tenant's references in coming accross as a Barack Room lawyer to future landlords.

Maybe a matching up webiste. I have long thought it very appropriate for a tenant to want references for their landlord, maybe the site could be called 'Show me yours, I'll show you mine'

Nothing wrong with the key board Ben just a senior moment!
There was a new web site launched on Monday, by a great Agent in Wolverhampton, he knows the DSS market really well and the site is only for landlords who want LHA tenants, it is free to advertise at the moment and I think that this is great for tenants who get tired of asking "Do you take DSS?"
Perhaps there is room in the market for sites for long term lets?
"Show me yours, I'll show you mine" hahahaha this is how I operate Ben. I show my prospective tenants my membership of NLA and MLAS and my certificate of Incorportation which dates back to the early 80's. I explain that I am showing them these documents for two reasons 1. To prove that I am a long term landlord and it is my intention to continue for some years 2. To show them that I work to a voluntary Code of Conduct and that I know my legal obligations and theirs. Many tenants come to me having has the expereince of being moved on and they are pleased that I intend to offer them a long term home. I always explain that we both need the first 6 months to get to know each other and to makes sure that they are happy living in the property but that beyond that if they meet all the terms of the AST I will role the tenancy over as long as they want to live there.
I have been asked for a longer AST but when I explain,as above, they realise that I am being fair to both of us. I have one tenant who only wanted a 6 months AST over 17 years ago. After a few years I laughed and asked her why she only asked for a 6 month tenancy when she had stayed so long. She told me "I wanted to be sure that you were a good landlord, I have had some bad ones and even if the house is nice they make life too difficult" I take it as a huge compliment that she has raised her family in that house and I hope that she will live there forever. I have only increased the rent twice in all those years and then by less than 4% each time because she treats it like her home and only expects me to do the "big" work and safety inspections. She is a great tenant and my return has been far better than if I had let the house 20 plus times and increased the rent.

Mark is right Mary, some people ave no morals and I see them all day long unfortunately. Landlord's whose sole focus is their property business with total contempt for their social responsibilities.

My thought was this, if a tenant leaves an AST early they are liable for the remaining rent for the full period, a law could be introduced whereby if a landlord wants a tenant to move earlier than stated they should have to pay all relocation costs. But then it occured to me that all this would only result in an increase in 6 month agreements, so we're back to step 1.
I dont think we are necessarily talking so much about bad landlords either, obviously there are the liars out there like my ex landlord but as I said before the financial position of amateurs is often as tenuous as their tenants. If they bite off more than they can chew with an ill thought out business plan and no reserves of cash to get them through lean times a decent tenant can lose their home through no fault of their own.
Yeah I know, thats life, rough with the smooth and all that but it happens so often that anything that might limit the risk is no bad thing. Education helps as would councils helping small landlords out with advice and support. I read just this morning of a joint project between Housing Action Charitable Trust and Birmingham Uni (How come all the best ideas are up your way Mary?) helping social housing providers take a wider view on initiatives in their community http://www.hact.org.uk/news/hact-joins-forces-tsrc-release-community-investment-potential-social-housing-providers

For the same reason that we were the home of the Industrial Revolution Ben. We are problem solvers, even Himself is from Wolverhampton hahaha. It would be a great career move for you to come to the West Midlands and to work with Homestamp (University are very active partners as is their students union). We have real partnership working here and we find answers to help the PRS thrive and to be a good place for tenants to live. You would find a nice home with a good long term landlord at a fair rent and you would see that many of the problems that you deal with do not happen so much here. London is, I think, a particular market as are all catpital cities, and it concerns me that many decisions are made by Government because they only look at what happens in London.
We have got accidental landlords but no so many as you have in London and the prices of properties are so much lower as is the cost of labour and therefore landlords are under less financial pressure. So long as tenants actually pay their rent and behave with respect to the community and the property most landlords will do everything that we can to keep them happy.
We need a quicker route to removing the bad tenants without making the good tenants feel insecure. Bad tenants spoil communities and there needs to be legislation to make them behave rather than allowing them to move from one unsuspecting landlord to the next. This is why I support a web site that references the tenants behaviour and allows landlords to warn each other. I want all West Midlands landlords to join that site and to send a clear message - if you are a bad tenant you will not find a home in the West Midlands.
I hate it when good tenants are penalised for the bad ones every bit as much as I hate it when good landlords are burdend because of the bad ones.

Ben I'll give you whatever promissory you want on an AST if you wish to stay in Bishop's Stortford in my flat for the next 18 years!
Is that a long enough commitment for you!!
45 mins to Liverpool St.
4 mins walk to stn platform
Located on Stort riverbank
You wouldn't be moved on by me and of course I do but I definitely would be complying with ALL my LL responsibilities!!
I will have a ground floor flat available soon.
No prescriptive rent increases; we would discuss.
How about it!?
Even with possible redundancy looming there are ways and ways of ensuring you could afford my rent whilst looking for other employment, which I am prepared to facilitate.

How about a LL completing an affidavit, attested to by a solicitor.
this costs about £5 committing to a tenant for a defined period if the tenant wishes to remain that long to be attached to the AST.
Presumably the affidavit would be attached to the AST
I am prepared to do 3 of them on my 3 flats for the next 18 years, subject to the tenant complying with all aspects of the tenancy.