Looking for advice on taking letting agency to court after heating and plumbing battle

Reply to the comment left by "Steve From Leicester" at "06/02/2015 - 13:04":

Thanks, Steve.

Am I right in saying that under data protection the agent couldn't have simply advised the tenant that the landlord wasn't authorising the repairs, as the landlord was their client?

No disrespect intended to agents, but after signing up with a small agent to manage my first rental property, only to have really shoddy repairs subcontracted by him that he then charged me for, but didn't subsequently refund me as he couldn't track down the builder, I really wonder why a letting agent would take property management on, unless they have reliable people subcontracted to them, and they have a proper arrangement with the landlord to pay for and authorise repairs (e.g. insist landlord sets up maintenance fund with them)?

In my case, I could have simply found myself a builder through the usual channels, and although there are plenty of cowboy builders around, at least I could have checked him for myself, and if the work wasn't to standard, it would simply have been between me and the builder. Unless the agent could get me a better builder on better terms, or at the very least, indemnify me against bad workmanship, what was the point?

Reply to the comment left by "Mandy Thomson" at "06/02/2015 - 13:31":

Hi Mandy,

If a landlord tells his agent he won't pay for repairs the agent should be free to pass this information on to the tenant.

Where it gets tricky is when the landlord says "Right-ho, leave it with me and I'll send my man Bert down to sort it out". The agent tells the tenant in good faith, then the tenant blames the agent when Bert never gets round to doing the job.

As agents we use reputable tradespeople, and make sure they are properly qualified and insured. The trouble is that inevitably they charge more than Cowboy Bert so a certain type of landlord will refuse to let us send our guys in, and will insist on "sorting it out themselves". Then the agent takes the flak when it doesn't get done and ends up being slagged off on forums such as Allagents

Believe me, one of the things that really annoys and frustrates responsible professional agents is landlords who employ us to manage a property ("manage" being the key word), then effectively prevent us from doing so. In the worst cases we've ended up dis-instructing them.

Reply to the comment left by "Steve From Leicester" at "06/02/2015 - 13:56":

Thanks again, Steve.

I realise that most agents aren't run in quite the same way as the one I picked when I was a complete novice landlord, and as a landlord, I've had enough of people blanket slating everyone in certain businesses or professions.

My agent (one guy with a couple of staff) really was trying to punch above his weight - firstly, he should probably only have offered an advisory service and just recommended tradesmen to clients, not full management, but if he did want to do full management, ensured he had some kind of client indemnity in place in case something went wrong - I doubt, however, he had the resource to provide it.

Hi everyone so today ive had a response from the landlord solicitor saying that they have reports from every engineer that came out that i was never without heating and hot water ( not one of them that came out tested it they just looked at the boiler and left saying we need to order a part). They also say that we always got someone out within 24 hours of reporting an issue ( which i can prove wasnt the case).
He is also stating if i take him to court he will take me to court for damage to the sink which wasnt done by me was in the property when i moved in but wasnt noted on the inventory due to having no light in the bathroom so didnt see it till it was too late. But surely if they gave me the deposit money back and its now almost 2 years later he cant do this.
This has all made me so upset and scared again.

Hi Maria,

I can't imagine for one minute that the landlord could take any action against you over the sink. However, this reinforces my view that you should simply move on.

Your former landlord is clearly going to challenge any claim. You will need to prove that he breached his duty of care and also that you suffered some sort of loss as a result. That last bit is important - you don't get compensated simply for having a rubbish landlord, you need to show that you lost money, or suffered some sort of genuine pain, distress or trauma as a result of having a rubbish landlord.

It doesn't seem very fair but let it go.

Hi Maria

Taking your second point first, the counter threat from the landlord - he really is trying it on. He has no evidence that you broke the sink - it wasn't noted on your check out inventory, and he was happy to give you back the deposit. He would have a very hard time proving otherwise!

A point I also wanted to make, that was touched on by another poster when it was suggested you would have a hard time making a claim against your former landlord - in a civil claim, such as for damages, as opposed to a criminal case, the burden of proof isn't as high. In criminal matters, the burden of proof is beyond all reasonable doubt, but in civil matters, especially for small amounts, the burden is simply the balance of probality - i.e. what is reasonable? So, for example, where the sink is concerned, is it reasonable that a broken sink wouldn't be picked up on a professional inventory? No. Is it reasonable that the landlord would have paid your deposit back if a break had been there? No. Most non legal people mistakenly believe proof always has to be absolute, something I thought myself until a solicitor advised me otherwise.

As for the engineers' reports, do you have copies? If not, ask the landlord's solicitor to send you some. Also, are all these engineers on the Gas Safe Register http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/ (as a minimum)?

Your former landlord sounds like an extremely nasty piece of work, the kind that gets the rest of us a bad name!

I agree with Steve. Let it go. You seemed willing to sue someone as long as they didn't offer any resistance. But that's not the way it works. If you want to criticise someone you must be very sure that they can't criticise you in return. I also don't understand why you are trying to do this now, after so much time. I can't remember all the hassles I've had in the last couple of years - there have been so many as a landlord - and because of this I choose my battles wisely as far as I can. More specifically, I tend to only take someone to court when they owe me at least a few hundred pounds and when I can clearly evidence that and they have no defence and I know I can enforce the payment. I don't see you having any clearcut case like that at all. I think you should drop it. Then you wouldn't feel 'upset and scared.' NB. Don't you also think you might be making the landlord feel upset and scared. We have also only heard your version of events...

@Maria you said: "they have reports from every engineer that came out that i was never without heating and hot water " is that what the solicitor or the heating engineers actually said? Is it more likely that none of the engineers actually said you were without heating and hot water (but didn't say you had them either)?

Also, the parts that needed replacing - would lack of those working parts have resulted in lack of heating or hot water? Ask a heating engineer - find someone qualified online and just email them the question - most will be glad to advise you. If the answer is yes, and you have the reports, you have sufficient evidence for a claim, together with your records of the conversations when you reported it.

However, as Steve and Rosalind have said, you need to decide whether it's worth the stress and hassle at the end of day, as it looks like this person will fight dirty!

Can't help but agree with Steve and co.

Although as a side note, the time for your ex landlord to claim for damage for the sink has past.

The fact the your deposit was returned without mention of the sink speaks volumes. Trying to bring it up as some sort of counterclaim later along the line without it having been discussed at an earlier date is clutching at straws at best.

To everyone who has said let it go, i generally wish i could but i still suffer with panic attacks when i have to phone my new letting agency to report an issue even though there great. Much easily said than done.
I dont have to pay to take him to court.
The hole boiler ended up being condemned and nothing changed from when i moved in. Just took one genuine baxi engineer to come out and test the water and heating and then he was like this is not acceptable.
why should landlords get away with treating people who pay there rent make the property a lot nicer than what it was by spending 2 weeks decorating yellow and brown walls to magnolia, like this. They shouldnt be landlords in my mind.