Liverpool granting licences to Agents and not Landlords?

it will be interesting to see if I get my licence. I applied in May and have paid in full. The website states my application has been accepted but I haven't received the licence yet. Let's hope they don't tell me it has to be my letting agent as they charge a fee to apply on my behalf!

Reply to the comment left by Lesley Clarke at 21/06/2022 - 15:38
LA wants £240+VAT.

slightly off piste here...and might seem like a daft question but...

How does any council actually inform a private LL that licencing of their property is required?

If you are not a LL who is a NRLA member, does not live in the area themselves where licencing is coming in, how are you actually supposed to know?

Not a daft question. But ignorance is no defence. It is the landlord's responsibility to keep themselves informed. So, as a landlord you need to have managing agent, or be in a landlord association, or registered as a student housing provider with a Uni that sends out info, or seek out info from NRLA and forums like this 🙂

Reply to the comment left by Simon F at 29/06/2022 - 23:56but again, there is no requirement for you to do so, so where would you find out?
In Birmingham for example (the next area to have SL I believe)they are planning to introduce a licence of all PRS properties in certain postcodes.
You are a LL living outside the area. You self manage the property. Its not an HMO or student let or anything where there are already other licences/permits needed. A house with a private tenant on a standard AST.You are not a member of a LL association (its not mandatory).
How would you know if this affects you? How would you know if you needed a licence? Moreover how could you be fined?
Surely you can't be asked to pay a fine for a licence you didn't know needed paying in the first place? If the Council knew where to send the fine, they must surely know that you were due to pay for the licence in the first place and be able to show evidence that you were given notice of this, for the fine to be upheld??

I don't see how a Council can deny a Licence to an owner/Landlord, who after all is ultimately the responsible person for all failings of a property, and cannot cede responsibility to an agent or tenant, such as in a Rent to Rent situation and regarding RROs. We've seen that with recent court decisions.

Reply to the comment left by Freda Blogs at 30/06/2022 - 10:08
by the same token I cant see how a council can prosecute the person who holds the licence UNLESS they are the actual property owner.

The law 'buck' always stops with the property owner unless, there is a specific and detailed contractual agreement between between the owner and the Agent that says that otherwise.

I very much doubt there are any agent out there that would offer such terms, so yet again another piece of an ill thought (cash cow) procedure by councils.

Another bit of case law to be set shortly no doubt on this as the ramifications hit home....

Reply to the comment left by Freda Blogs at 30/06/2022 - 10:08
I agree completely. LCC don't have a scooby.

Reply to the comment left by DSR at 30/06/2022 - 13:41
Councils' experience is that agents are generally more compliant with nonsensical demands than landlords, and this is what it's about here - LCC are trying to load the dice in their favour. Freda has it right - there's no legal grounds for refusing the licence to a landlord; it's contrary to national guidance. Any/every refusal of a licence to a landlord on the basis that they are not the most appropriate person can and should be challenged assertively. LCC will cave on this so long LLs affected support each another by acting in like manner.

So I wrote To Liverpool Council and asked for clarification on who should be the license holder, this is their reply:

Usually the licence holder would be the owner (if self-managed) or a managing agent. The main requirement is that the licence holder is ‘fit and proper’ and best suited to manage the property in case of problems.
The Housing Act 2004 Section 88 (2)(a)(b) states that the local authority may grant a licence to the applicant or some other person, if the matters in subsection 88 (3) are satisfactory. These matters are-
Section 88 (3)(a)(b) states; that the proposed licence holder is a fit and proper person and the most appropriate person to be the licence holder.
Also, that the proposed manager of the house is the “person having control” or agent/employee of person having control.
It also states in Section 89 (4) that; for the purposes of section 88 (3)(a) the person who should be the licence holder, “The local authority MUST assume unless the contrary is shown the “person having control” is a more appropriate person to be the licence holder than any other person who is not having control of it.
This means that the licence holder should be the “person having control” and where an agent is employed to manage the property on behalf of the landlord and receives the rent, then the agent should usually be the licence holder.
Section 263 is the meaning of “person having control” which states that the person having control is the person who receives the rack rent.
The Licence holder must also have a valid UK address that they can receive notices at.
Applicants need to consider the above and decide the most appropriate person to be licence holder. If you are unsure, seek legal advice.
If the agent is in receipt of the rent, then they are the person who are most appropriate. If you list an agent on your application, it may be rejected and you may lose any fees paid. We have informed most large agents that it is them that should be applying for the licences and we have received many from them. We did in the last scheme allow Landlords with agents to hold their own licences but we have learnt from the last scheme and now know that this is incorrect and are now enforcing more rigorously around who the licence holder should be.
I trust this answers your questions.
Regards
PSH Licensing and Enforcement Support Officer
Neighbourhoods Directorate
Liverpool City Council

I am really unhappy with this answer because I have already made five applications in my name costing £900 so far, which they claim I will lose if they reject the application. I'm not sure how they can reject my application and then keep the fee, I would imagine any half-decent lawyer would kick this out of court, but as an individual I wouldn't feel confident taking this legal route myself, maybe this is one for one of the landlords associations to deal with on our behalf?