Landlords should not be allowed to let their own properties

Landlords should not be allowed to let their own properties

21:50 PM, 17th August 2012, About 12 years ago 55

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Landlords should not be allowed to let their own properties

I’ve recently had a heated exchange of emails with a chap called Mike who’s opinion is that “landlords should not be allowed to let their own properties”. I invited him to produce an article as he set me a challenge and I wanted him to offer his challenge publicly to the readership of Property118. Mike refused on the basis that we are self interest group and went on to say that he doesn’t expect me to agree with him “because you have a vested interest and are biased”.  There’s nothing to stop me writing the article though and summarising the points he made and the gauntlet that he threw down which I refused to pick up unless it was in public forum.

I know Mike is an avid reader of Property118 and even though we had some heated exchanges and several fundamental differences of opinion I will not reveal his identity. He may however, wish to post on this thread – he is a regular poster here under the pseudonym “Industry Observer”.

Mike made some interesting remarks in his emails along the lines of:-

  • You can’t do an MOT on your own car just because you own it
  • You can’t sell pensions unless you are authorised
  • You can’t perform surgery unless you are qualified
So why are landlords allowed to let their own properties?

And to quote Mike word for word ….

“What chance have private Landlords got of getting it right? I don’t blame them but I do think tenants need protecting from it. Housing is just too important in my view.”

And when I pointed out that a landlord takes on a lot more risk when he hands over the keys to his property than a tenant does when he pays his first months rent and deposit Mike said ….

“Depends if the house is safe of course, whether you have had the gas boiler gas safe registered in the last 5 years, will come barging in when me and my missus are in bed (drunk and with a baseball bat in your hand etc etc) and so on. You get the picture? What risk anyway? The Law is on tenant’s side but only short term all cards are in LL hand in long game.”

This is the gauntlet that Mike threw down ….

“You are convinced any private Landlord should retain the right to let their property and manage it themselves with minimal intrusion and interference from outside. Fine – forget you are an expert and socially conscious and legally aware Landlord. You give me 6 good reasons why these other not their fault necessarily but unaware Landlords should be allowed to. If you get past 3 I will be impressed!!”

Below are some extracts from the emails and the points I made to counter Mike’s arguments. Note that I did not take up his challenge, I want the landlord community to do that because I suspect that as landlords we are going to have to deal with a lot more people like Mike in the not too distant future. Politicians and the mainstream press will no doubt encourage it as it makes for good reading and potential vote winning campaigns. As landlords we are considered to be soft targets. We must unite and fight back!

  1. Mike, what’s your definition of a competent letting agent? I’ve walked into several letting agents offices with a national presence which are members of ARLA, NALS, SAFEagent, RICS etc. and I have been greeted by completely incompetent clueless bimbo’s offering advice on lettings to both landlords and tenants. These firms operate in every City and most towns. How would you stop this?
  2. If a licence was no more expensive or difficult to obtain than a TV licence I think that would be fair. Then, when landlords are found guilty of the types of criminal activities you have described below the licence should be revoked. Lesser offences are already punishable by fines, e.g. no gas safety certificate or failure to protect a deposit etc. With regards to lesser offences, licencing of landlords could operate on a three strikes and you are out basis. If it was made illegal for mortgage lenders to lend to unlicensed landlords and for Courts to take possession of any let properties from unlicensed landlords and sell them at auction that would certainly cut out 90%+ of the problems don’t you agree? Trouble is, that’s the concept on which legislation is often first discussed, then the do good numpties in Whitehall start bolting stuff on like exams, compulsory CPD, submissions to regulators etc. and economies go into reverse thereafter very quickly in real terms, viz financial services as a result of the FSA.

So, who wants to be first to take up Mike’s challenge?

You give me 6 good reasons why these other not their fault necessarily but unaware Landlords should be allowed to. If you get past 3 I will be impressed”


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Comments

Antony Richards

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17:42 PM, 20th August 2012, About 12 years ago

Given the amount of poor agents around, individuals must be allowed to rent and manage their own properties. I'm a bad agent. It must be true because our MP said so in Parliament.
My daughter is in Cardiff where we are having ridiculous problems trying to get her deposit back. We went to dispute 12 months ago and won. It looks like the same is about to happen again plus I shall be suing the landlord for not protecting the deposit and not providing the right prescribed information. The agencies I have dealt with in Cardiff are quite simply fly by nights who see an opportunity to make a quick buck.
There is a problem where corporate agencies put poorly trained staff in front of house, their lack of knowledge is astounding. It is actually quite fun following them into a house just to hear how little they know but the firms have membership of ARLA etc, not the individuals.
Much as I would love to see all landlords being forced to use agents it is just not practical.
Its also fun dealing with soliciors acting for tenants who, being jacks of all trades, do not know landlord and tenancy law particularly well. I am not saying I know everything or do everything properly, but there is a great deal of mis-information out there.

Mary Latham

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18:46 PM, 20th August 2012, About 12 years ago

Ben the accreditation schemes that are based on the LAS modle passport landlords from one scheme to another free of charge - they are not "vying to be the body of choice" and we don't expect landlords to pay twice or the same thing we just want all landlords who become accredited to be recognised whereever they let. MLAS is mdlands based, NLA is a ntional scheme but neither want to be "the scheme" just part of a national model delivered locally by landlords who know the patch.

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20:32 PM, 20th August 2012, About 12 years ago

Quite a few of my tenants have said that they much prefer to rent privately, ie NOT through an agent.

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0:37 AM, 21st August 2012, About 12 years ago

JUST STOP RIGHT THERE !!!

this Mike chap is taking you for a fool. creating an argument where none existed before.
do not even read this Mike's opinions.
the reasons I say this are obvious !!!!

WHO DRIVES YOUR CAR ? YOU DO
WHO LIVES WITH YOUR FAMILY ? YOU DO ( or at lease it should be )
WHO LIVES YOUR LIFE ? YOU DO !!

NOBODY NEEDS SOME ARGUMENTATIVE IDIOT TO TELL YOU HOW TO RUN YOUR LIFE.
HOW TO RUN YOUR BUSINESS NOR HOW TO BREATH.

I would not take such abuse from my wife....let alone from some stranger.

you do your best. that's all. and if it's not good enough for the Mikes of this world....then you cannot help him.

politely tell him to p*** off.

this Mike does not have to buy from your shop. he can go elsewhere.

there are bad landlords just as there is bad tenants, bad doctors, bad politicians, bad policemen, bad builders, bad mechanics, the list is as long as the ' good ' one.

you don't send your car to an agency mechanic just in case you get a bad mechanic.
afterall, the agency mechanic could end up as the bad one ! then what !!

the very same argument could be used for every walk of life, creating multiple levels of indifference.

delete his opinions from your mind. he is not worthy of comment.

David Main

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4:52 AM, 21st August 2012, About 12 years ago

Mike - you are behind the curve so far as Scotland is concerned. As a landlord in Scotland I must periodically register myself and my properties with each local authority in which I let and undergo a crimal records check to prove that I am a fit and proper person to let property. Should I engage in the type of activity Mark Alexander quotes you as saying I can be be barred from letting property, on pain of criminal conviction if I do. For failings short of the criminal behaviour you describe, such as letting a sub-standard property or failing to discharge my other responsibilities as landlord, the tenant can be ordered not to pay rent until my failings have been rectified. Again, persistent failure will see me disqualified from letting property.

Satisfied???

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9:42 AM, 21st August 2012, About 12 years ago

It would seem that the Scottish way of doing thing over the English way has many things to commend itself.
Perhaps a review of the way Scotland does things as it maybe a useful blueprint guide as to what England may do.
I can't see as there is much difference between an English LL and a Scottish LL!?
However it is a general truism that good LL will register for schemes etc and bad ones won't.
Govt does not have the time or money to find all the iunregistered LL and all their properties.
It would take about 35 years!

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13:51 PM, 21st August 2012, About 12 years ago

That we even assume (as so many have here) that we can put the letting of our OWN house (that is to say as a landlord we kindly LET someone occupy our own territory in return for some money naturally) in the same bracket as the internal workings of the human body, high speed transport and stocks&shares/annuities management under FSA control, in the first place, shows what a good job the powers 'that be' have done in clouding people's minds by the acceptance of initiation rules. Hmm. Let's see now, shall we now make things easier for say social services (after all that is the modern authoratative objective to make things easier to suit themselves) and declare that we all have to have a parenting license to own/keep our children to cover themselves and save them having to do 'post' checks, be allowed out at night in areas where there are no CCTV cameras only if we are on the higher rate of the new daily government payments scheme and marked as a good citizens and if so, be able to collect points which on totalling 14 we will be able to have our passports for 2 weeks and be allowed to spend our money actually outside our own country. Or shall we 'get real' accept life is life, remove big brother's testicles (his power source) with an unqualified surgeon naturally and let me have continue to have access to the wallets of all lessers citizens than myself without any boring control freaks or freakees (the ones who actually feel better sub-conciously when they are being controlled) swimming in my free space. Imagine there's no countries (Mr JL)

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18:30 PM, 21st August 2012, About 12 years ago

I completely agree that most agents in the UK are not that professional - I experienced it both as tenant some years ago now and now as landlord. To be honest, as landlord I would prefer to hand the responsibility to a decent, professional and knowledgeable agent. BUT, reality is that most collect rent only without much customer service. The UK market is ripe for professional residential letting agents.

As I work extensively in the commercial property market I know the difference and for that reason my wife and I decided to manage our properties ourselves. It does take some commitment to ensure it is done correctly but tenant feedback has been really positive. I think I speak for the majority of landlords by saying that we are not out to scam tenants out of money - we expect to receive rent for the properties we let out. It is a business activity and the rental income reflects the risk we take (putting cash into your bank account may be less risky, hence the return is lower etc). There will always be 'rogue' landlords and they are the ones unlikely to register.

If additional regulations are introduced then this will ultimately increase costs - these costs will be passed on to tenants one way or another so just make it more expensive to rent. In the current economic environment we need stimuli not additional red tape to encourage entrepreneurship and growth.

Elaine Hassall

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23:54 PM, 25th August 2012, About 12 years ago

Hi, I'm new to the site but feel I can comment on this, I manage all three of my flats, I advertise on Gumtree, show people round the flats, explain what I do as a landlady ie any problem with the flat sorted within 24 hours, a well looked after flat, rent paid late because of personal problems. I then explain what I expect from a tenant ie rent paid on time, property looked after, no upsetting the neighbours (who have my phone number to ring if there is a problem) and that I have a cousin who is built like a brick ****house and if there are any problems they are out, no section 21, no courts, I all so explain I will not pay any fines and that I'm so busy I would welcome six months doing nothing in prison, also that I would contact every newspaper, name and shame them so no-one would ever rent to them again. So far a young tenant has done a runner owing a months rent and having let his two dogs use the flat as a toilet and I've had to explain to a noisy young neighbour of one of my tenants that it wasn't a good idea to keep having parties and disturbing my tenant! I used to be really nice and quiet until I got into BTL but there again you shouldn't mess with a woman in her late 40s - it's the hormones you see! Having said all this I've had tenants ring me to see if I've any more properties to let as their friends are interested and other tenants that have been with me for years.

Matt Wardman

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18:53 PM, 26th August 2012, About 12 years ago

The Scottish way succceeded in adding something like £15m of license fees to the costs of tenants in the first few years in return for the benefit of a single digit no of landlords who lost their licenses.

Having said that, Sir Robin Wails' fees in Newham will be about 10 times higher for no discernable benefit whatsoever.

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