Issuing a Section 21 on the start of a tenancy – Readers Question

Paul,

I've been serving precautionary section 21's (on a case by case basis) and evicting tenants through the courts long before your well documented disasterous mistakes gave you some very harsh lessons.

I'm partially in agreement with you about precautionary section 21's but I take offence to you slagging off experienced landlords who's successful business methods differ from yours and that you can't understand.

I'll let you have the last word on this if you do me a favour and stop SHOUTING in every post you make, you're making everyone deaf.

Regards, HB Welcome

Reply to the comment left by "HB Welcome" at "13/07/2013 - 11:45":

Based on your experience then; what is so wrong about the practice of a precautionary S21 providing it is served and managed in a friendly and informative way to the tenants.
I would have saved fortunes if I knew then what I know now.
If I had known then what I know now i would definitely have used this practice.
Surely it is better to become knowledgeable at some stage and impart that ft others who may have been of are in a similar situation as I once was.
I wouldn't wish what happened to me on my worst enemy...................................well almost!!
Everybody likes to hear about others misfortunes.................................it is a very useful learning tool..........................to NOT make the same mistakes.
Which is why I have been vociferous in pointing out my errors in the hope and expectation that others don't make the same mistakes.
We LL just don't deserve the treatment we receive and need all the help we can obtain from whatever quarter!

thanks for using my article it seems every time I make an offering it opens a can of worms.

It is frustrating to ask a question and then others seem to comment without reading my article.

Ray, Martin, Sally ask the same questions, it may be that the article has made them think. I agree with Anthony hence the question.

I have been a landlord for 12 years, because the properties are about 95 miles away I use a letting agent to advertise and find a tenant, then I manage it myself. It worked well until last year until a tenant lost her job and made all sort of promises about sorting the rent. It didn't happen and that's when I started to learn the trade. Eviction, sec 21, etc.

I am a private landlord dependent on rental income, Not the council or welfare, so listen to Paul's comments. Try to help tenants too much and you will be left with the Bill.

Paul Barrett was the only one on a long list of contributors to this post that answered the question I asked. His posting is dated 13/07/13 @1140. Thank you Paul.

While it did not feel right to issue the 21, I was following advise after having to evict the previous tenant mentioned. I also wrote an article on that as well and wile I tried to make it humorous, I would not like to go through it again.

The sec 21 was issued about three months into the tenancy, with a prior warning it was coming. Again when issued there was a letter of explanation that I was happy with them and hoped they would stay for many years.

Listen to Paul Issue it with the DPC, after all you say it is just a precaution cause I don't know how things will work out between us down the road but I hope you want a long term tenancy.

I have mad a contribution (sorry Mark only small at the moment) to help Mark and his partner keep this site going. There are free downloads of forms and the advice is invaluable. I would recommend others to do the same, as 118 brings us together.

The questions I posed should probably be changed to Why should AST's not be changed. It should say the tenant has to give the LL 2 months notice if he intends to leave at the end of the term, and can only stay on to a periodic with written consent from the LL. Without consent PO can be given to the squatter if they do not leave at the end of the term.

Is that some thing you can see changing Mark, would a petition help.

Recardo I do try to assist; and I do so because if I am wrong then I will be told so and I will then learn.
You are far more experienced than me; I've only been doing this for about 7 years and i have made some almighty howlers; but iI pay attention to this and other fora and hopefully I am getting better every day.............................................Betty!!?
I try my amateurish best to give valid opinions but recognise I can always be wrong.
I tend to defer to people like Mark; M Latham, B Lewis, IO etc.
These are the true professionals and as such they should be considered the font of!!
This is where I get most of my info.
I just hope I have regurgitated it correctly!!
As for getting housing law changed re AST's; could we NOT have the eviction laws sorted FIRST.
That is far more important.
I can't see govt coping with more than 1 thing at a time as far as housing is concerned!!!

I agree Paul and I did suggest some sort of petition should be raised about that months ago when going through the eviction process, sec 21, Possession order, bailiffs. I asked Mark if it would be possible to do something but I suppose wheels turn slowly and everyone is in favour of a bad tenant and not a good landlord. I know as it has cost me to try and help a struggling tenant. I wouldn't do it again.

Maybe a change to the wording of an AST would be an easier start. Cant see the problem we want long term tenants and will not force an eviction unless AST terms are being breached. The do-gooders should be asking why we want to get rid of a tenant not try to help the bad tenants fleece us and live in our property for free.

Got a new tenant a week ago she came out with some sort of bogus snagging list like she was buying a new house. The house has cost me over £2000 to refurbish, but instead of appreciating what the family have now got a nice 3 bed house instead of a 1 bed tower flat all on HB she want's me to remove a couple of rad and fill and paint the gaps under the window boards. and get rid of the ants in her outhouse.
I gave her some ant powder and said use it if you want or give it back to me on my next visit as I also ant in my conservatory now. Also gave her a paint brush and said there is some paint in the outhouse if it bothers you so much. She has been to the citizen advice and she knows her rights.
I told her that's fine she has signed a 6 month AST and if she does not like the property give me 1 month notice and move out with my blessing. If you stay and don't calm down I will want my house back in 6 months time. She will be gone!

What can you do when there is a cut in benefits universal credit coming in and property in an area of high unemployment.
Take on people with HB or have an empty house. The council are now also now charging tax on empty properties app £110pm + the mortgage. I will not find families that qualify for RGI and if I waited I would go bankrupt.

The tenant I served with a Sec 21, 3 months into the tenancy has asked if he can paint the front of the house. I said yes please I will buy the paint. A newbe wants me to patch paint and get rid of the ants some people are morons., the house looks the best it's ever been since I brought it in 2001.

Reply to the comment left by "Recardo Knights" at "13/07/2013 - 19:31":

Yep I agree this is a dilemma.
HB tenants know the situation you are in.
therefore they will take the p--s.
If your tenant does wish to leave she will stop paying you 2 months before the expiry of the 6 month AST.
You will lose 2 months rent; will you bother trying to recover!?.....................NO, a complete waste of time as she's on benefit.
This is why many LL are getting out of YHB tenants.
Some are selling up and reinvesting in nicer areas.
Cashflow means nothing if you are forever having to evict etc.
Far better to have less cashflow but tenants on whom you have RGI.
Given the choice between a HB tenant who generates £150 pw and one who has RGI who generates £100 pw; guess which I would go for!?
so perhaps time to sell up and invest in a better area where you don't have to rely on HB tenants.
As you suggest with UC on its way the nightmare hasn't properly started.
The UC Pathfinder trials don't exactly inspire confidence.
HB LL are in a bit of a pickle.
They just have to hope they are not stitched up by their tenants.
HB tenants know they have the power once the AST is signed.
RGI gives the power back to the LL; but as you say these type of tenants won't pass.
HB LL are very much hostages to fortune with whom I have every sympathy
I'm just glad i have nothing to do with them at the outset of a tenancy!!
As far a AST petition goes.
A waste of time.....................................................AST's are governed by housing law; This WON'T be changed
I;m afraid HB LL are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Just keep your fingers crossed and hope your HB tenants keep paying.
If you have the resources I would put away mortgage payments equal to 10 months payments per property if you cannot obtain RGI on all the tenants.
Not every amount you have saved will be used; but it will stop you sweating when you get a wrongun tenant who you have to evict.
At least the monies will be there to pay the mortgage.
HB LL effectively have to self-insure against rent arrears.
I can't as I just don't have the resources so I have to have RGI and that means I can't have HB tenants.

Hi Paul I only ever take on HB tenants on an agreement that HB is paid directly to me, if they refuse they do not get my house, and with the tenants agreement I have never over the years had the Council refuse direct payment.

Why wait for them to miss a payment before asking for direct payments.

With the evicted tenant I was getting direct payment of about £550 on a £725 rent so I was loosing the top up payment amount.

The new payment is £700 on a £725 rent, if the tenants stops paying I lose £25pm + court fees for eviction.
I'm not sure if direct payments can be made once UC comes in as all benefits may be lumped together and given to the tenant so they can learn to manage THEIR money at my expense.

If direct payments are stopped and there is no change to eviction laws I will start to sell up.

Reply to the comment left by "Recardo Knights" at "17/07/2013 - 07:39":

UC will mean direct payment stop for most HB tenants.
Best you start selling up and investing in property which attracts tenants who don't rely on HB to pay the total amount of rent and on whom you can obtain RGI on.
Social LL will be paid directly; not so the PRS, as per usual.
I think lots of LL will make the same determination as you.
The sooner you move the better the situation will be.