Issuing a Section 21 on the start of a tenancy – Readers Question

Any LL that does NOT serve a S21 b once an AST has commenced and once the DPC and PI info has been served if a deposit has been taken is a naive idiot!
They clearly would have little understanding as to the way the eviction laws conspire against LL to put LL in extremely parlous financial circumstances.
I used to be a naive idiot!....................................................NO longer!
EVERY LL should serve a S21 b once the DPC and PI has been served.
I don't give a stuff what a tenant might think.
I have to protect myself from the law which favours tenants.
As long as you explain the reasoning behind issuance of the S2! I have never had ANY negative response from the tenants.
They appreciate and understand why they are being served the S 21 b.
They have always vacated long after any requirement to vacate had i enforced the S21 b.
If you trust a tenant you will inevitably be caught out.
Issuing a S21 b or a does NOT put off tenants if it is explained why this is being done.

We will have to agree to disagree - and I totally disagree

@Paul,
"Any LL that does NOT serve a S21 b once an AST has commenced and once the DPC and PI info has been served if a deposit has been taken is a naive idiot!"

I think there will be some extremely experienced landlords who might disagree with that.

Horses for courses, risk management and all that.

Reply to the comment left by "HB Welcome" at "12/07/2013 - 10:00":

Risjkmanagement..................eh!; it is one simple form which if explained to the tenant is simple for them to appreciate.
Clearly how it is served can make a lot of difference.
Just serving it on a tenant without any explanation is NOT good practice.
One has to appreciate the sensibilities of a tenant.
As for risk mangement; I 'm glad these other LA etc you use aren't used by me.
A very poor understanding of risk I say.
It costs NOTHING to issue a S 21 at the time one hands over the DPC and PI.
You get them to sign and date 2 S21 B copies and leave.
Then if you are faced with issues the tenant cannot say they have not recieved the S21.
Tenants are very savvy with their decietful little games.
It is far better to issue the S 21 when you are4 facing them with the DPC.
I'm glad I don't use any of your lot for risk management!!..................................the LL clients must have deep pockets.!!?

@Paul

Who said anything about LA's?
I said extremely experienced *landlords*
-some of whom post on here and are far from being naive idiots.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but I have a couple of questions-
1- If you can't evict a tenant before the end of a 6 month AST why do you need to issue the section 21 at the start, can't you just wait until month 3/4 ? (that way you don't make good tenants feel insecure about their tenancy)
2- When I've looked at a section 21 it has a space for a possession date, I'm assuming that if you issue it at the start of the tenancy the date would be at the end of the 6 months, what happens if the tenants stay past that date, do I have to re-issue a section 21 ? (if not how much notice would I have to give them?)

Reply to the comment left by "HB Welcome" at "12/07/2013 - 10:27":

Well I would call any LL that didn't issue a S21 at the same time or rather 1 minute after they have issued the DPC and PI info to the tenant etc an ignoramus!!..............I used to be one of them as I didn't know my a--e from my elbow regarding such matters!!
Do these 'experienced LL' NOT know how the eviction process works!
I used to not know how to beat the tenants at their little games; I know now!
I can only imagine that these supposed 'experienced LL' don't know how the law works.
Why would any experienced LL leave issuing a S21 til the end of the AST if the tenant refuses to leave if they state that intention and then don't comply.
The LL then has to issue a S21 a ,and it takes a further 2 months until a PO application may be made!!
So much for an 'experienced LL'..............................more money than sense I think!!.
I'd love to question them on their so called experience, clearly regarding the S21 issue they don't know what they are talking about!!
S 8 is a waste of time as tenants can always pay rent so they are only ever 1 month in arrears.
Any LL who appreciates how the law works would be perfectly diligent and correct in issuing a S21 b during the fixed term AST.
Any 'experienced LL that doesn't needs to review his working practices and costs of eviction.and the way they do business.
They may have been fortunate in not having to evict anyone; but having the proverbial S21 up your sleeve; just in case, is NOT bad practice.
We are a business after all!?
Why would you wish to expose yourself to a potential further 2 months of rent losses when for the sake of a S21 that could be prevented!!!??

@Paul Barret,

Quote from Mark Alexander 09/07/2013 at 11:26

"....not that I’ve ever issued a lot of s21′s, why would I ever want to evict a good tenant? (rhetorical question)"

Naive idiot? Ignoramus?

Or an extremely experienced respected landlord who can't be bothered arguing the toss with someone who still doesn't know his a–e from his elbow? (another rhetorical question)

Well I have to say I would not wish to NOT have a S21 notice on all my tenancies.
Clearly some LL don't mind having to wait 2 further months before they can commence possession proceedings!
That is not an experienced or clever way of behaving.
Now for sure if the LL have deep pockets and RGI on the tenants then fine; it is their money to throw away after all.
If NO RGI then the LL has to wait 2 clear tenant months and possibly longer if he misses the commencement of an AST period.
I don't believe for one moment that 99% of LL would not concur with my view that issuing a S 21 is a worthwhile thing to serve; even if there is NO intent at the time to enforce.
I have learnt most of what I know from all these fora and an eye opener they have been.
With the exception of HB all the advice has been brilliant.
HB I suggest you keep your weird opinion to yourself as it is duff advice.
I'll stick with the like of Tessa Shepperson and Mary Latham.
These are the people who I have learnt most from.
From you HB I have learnt how to NOT to do things.
I'm just glad you are nothing to do with my business as you don't have a clue how to manage tenants nor any appreciation of the County Court process and problems that exist for evicting tenants.
However it is interesting to note that there are LL out there that still don't know what they are doing!!...................and just don't get that a simple form that can save them a fortune!!.........................but it is there choice and their money so I'm fine with that.
We just don't want other LL behaving that way and being caught out.
So EVERYBODY IGNORE what HB states about S21...............MAKE sure you serve your S21 when you hand over the DPC and PI.

The reason you issue early is to prevent the silly games the tenants play when they state they just received an empty envelope.
So the GUARANTEED way to ensure they can't do this is to issue 2 S21 b and get the tenant to sign and date ALL pages leaving the LL with a copy.
You advise the tenant that unless they hear from you 2 months before the fixed term tenancy expires then you will NOT be enforcing the S21; but that is remains in force until another AST is signed.
If at any time during the tenancy the LL wishes possession of the property the LL will advise no later than 1 month before the AST is to expire that he intends to enforce the S21 if the tenants refuse to leave.
Of course the LL advises that he should NOT under normal circumstances require enforcement of the S21; but that if he does he does not have to wait another 2 months following expiry of the tenancy to apply for a PO.
Note the PO date is the day after the last day of the AST fixed term period.
Providing you advise tenants that it is the useless eviction laws in the UK that causes you to have to issue the S 21 which lasts forever then that should allay any concerns they may have,
I have NEVER enforced a S21 as I have stated to my tenants I want them to stay providing they comply with their AST's
I ALWAYS state to the tenants; it is NOTHING personal it is the useless eviction laws which means I MUST issue a S21.
Once you have explained to the tenants they fully understand and have no qualms about the situation.
One clearly must be sensitive about serving legal paperwork as very few tenants understand and could be scared about the situation.
I have found they welcome the info and they appreciate the education I have given them
Most have commented that they wish their previous LL had been so helpful in giving such explanations.