Immigrants en mass invade my property ?

Reply to the comment left by "Jamie Moodie" at "25/07/2014 - 11:00":

Hi OP, glad its underway for you now.

JC, the added facts in your last post open up another possible quicker route to getting your property back.

You could go and see the tenant again and make him aware that because of his actions you are racking up both court and professional costs that you will recover from him (gently mention the effect of a CCJ on his ability to get future UK credit).

With Paul's help, you could offer him, say, a week to get his guys alternative accommodation and then have him sign a surrender of the tenancy with a check out inventory, an agreement on damage v deposit, a settlement against the fees and vacant possession.

If he's really "nice but dim" he might agree; if he's really "sharp and on the make", he might not.

(totally agree that the occupiers don't have tenancies - your tenant doesn't have the right to grant them. BUT, they do have the right to occupy until you remove your tenant's right to have them there. If it gets that far, the bailiffs removing Mr Tenant will also sweep out his permitted occupiers at the same time)

Common law tenancy? What absolute rubbish.

You have a tenant, on an AST. He has let people let there, possibly as sub-letters.

You have to evict the tenant. Serve a Section 21(1)(b) now, and wait for the expiry date (end of fixed term). You could also try a Section 8, grounds 12, 13, 14, 15 and 17 and start court proceedings after two weeks. These are descretionary grounds, and would likely not work, except possibly by the tenant just giving up and moving out. If they get adequate legal advice they would suggest ignoring the S8 as it won't work, but I'd do both in tandem, as you can start the ball rolling on the S8 immediately, rather than waiting several months before starting the court action on a s21.

Get specialist advice, and don't listen to ******* who think it is appropriate to evict with intimidation or threats.

You cannot break the law (you would be worse than the people who is subletting illegally) and if you do, you could find yourself in way over your head.

Reply to the comment left by "Renovate To let" at "25/07/2014 - 11:48":

The tenant can grant tenancies! It's already been discussed.

@Simon: "Common law tenancy? What absolute rubbish."

I take that you do not know what conditions must be met for a tenancy to be an AST, then... Perhaps it would be good to look into the matter before making incendiary comments.

Anyway, at least JC is getting knowledgeable advice.

Reply to the comment left by "Romain " at "25/07/2014 - 16:38":

Simon, the tenant has moved out and taken up residence elsewhere so he has lost the AST fallen back to a common law tenancy. That means notice to quit would be appropriate, not S21 (assuming judge agrees). Fixed period still applies either way.

The reason I don't believe he can grant valid tenancies to his occupiers is simply that he contractually is not able to under the terms of his own tenancy. Therefore those 'sub tenancies' should not be valid.

Regardless, the way to clear the decks is either legally evict the OPs tenant or speak to him and try to get him to agree a surrender. I doubt just getting the 'employees' out would be a good solution as I would expect their boss would stop paying rent once he has to pay to house them elsewhere....

If it was me I would use S8 and also issue NTQ while then trying to negotiate with the tenant that surrender would be the cleanest and cheapest way for him to move on without large court costs and a CCJ to deal with.

What the OP has experienced was fairly common place in my location a couple of years ago with EU Eastern Immigrants fronting up a smart English speaking couple to take on a property and then once contracts and keys handed over filling the property with their "hot bedding" shift working Chums working in the location.
Word soon got around and those Landlord's in the know refused to let their property to anyone who was a suspect EU tenant.
It is a very expensive, time consuming job, to get rid of these Scumbags and although I do know of one Landlord, who doesn't have an Alsation dog by the way, but does have a fearsome reputation did sort out the problem tenant's in under 2 hours.
The Law is an Ass when it comes to situations like this but it will never alter in my lifetime.

Okay, so I had a Polish couple with a child sign a one year lease on my beautiful flat near Brighton. (Are you near Brighton? Just asking/checking). They refused to move out, even when I came back from working overseas. I was forced to rent up the road, for six agonising weeks, while they decided when they would deign to leave. It cost me a fortune in legal bills. In the end I decided to sell the flat. When I went in, it stank of feet and armpits. The living room had been divided into two halves with cheap shelves down the middle and a double bed. The child's room had another bed in it. The couple's room had a bunk bed and further bed. When I sold it the asking price dropped by £25,000 because the buyers said the bathroom and kitchen needed so much work, and the floorboards (tenants had grey-stained floors throughout with their feet and the floorboards were unspeakable). I know you are looking for advice and help here, and I am sorry I cannot help more than to say - they left in the end on the back of a Section 21. Going further, if one of them is a builder, and the child is young, and you also suspect there are NHS letters arriving for their other friends/family (mine had this going on, plus pairs of glasses arriving for people I had never heard of) then....I am up for a beer any time in that part of Sussex if you are. Let us discuss. It has been a year since this maddening, enraging, stress-inducing episode in my life and I am just about recovered enough to go in and do something about it. You can see from the other comments on here just how people feel. This was my home. lt belonged to my family before I bought it from them. I worked bloody hard to renovate it and loved living there. The injustice of it still rankles. I wish you the very best of luck - please do let me know if this could possibly be the same pair of deceitful, ungrateful, dishonest people. And by the way I used one of the best-known and established property agents in Sussex if that makes you feel any better. Yes, really. They took commission and everything. The reason I suspect this might just be the same pair, is that mine ruined the corridors with a fire extinguisher let off by the teenage daughter one weekend 'visiting from Poland.' Even if this is not them, you have my sympathy and rest assured I am pursuing this with my MP and beyond now that I am ready to tackle it. All feedback and any feedback on this welcome at this forum, thank you.

I am so sorry that you have gone through this. It sounds strangely like my own experience, and this was my own home. Did it happen in Sussex?

Further: I have now recovered financially and emotionally enough from the trauma of being kept out of my own flat by lying, sub-letting, tenants to take this on. When I say take it on, I am going to use my contacts in politics at all levels. I have never used them before but this is the last straw. I am not interested in cynicism or doubt, I want some support on this. All information welcome on this forum. Enough is enough. You are not alone, none of us are, and this ass of a law has to change.

If people sign a legal document saying they will be out of a property on a certain date, and they sign it one year in advance, and they are given decent notice to vacate, THEN THEY VACATE. And if there are more than two beds in a flat clearly let for two beds, THEN THEY LOSE THEIR ENTIRE DEPOSIT AND MORE BESIDES.

When I sold the flat it went for £25,000 under the asking price. Property agent (don't worry I got another one to replace the people 'taking care of my flat' when I was away) said 'Buyers complained about cost of restoring kitchen, bathroom and floorboards). All ruined by tenants subletting. Smell was indescribable.

You know what still rankles? I had to let this couple keep some of the deposit. And they moaned about the bathroom they had ruined because I had not provided disabled facilities for the husband, a builder.

Why do I mention this? Just in case this is sounding awfully familiar to you or anyone else on this forum. Sussex. Polish couple. Child. Husband/father claiming to be disabled. Subletting with bunk beds. Receiving NHS appointments and even glasses for others, not listed at that address, long after their departure. Tons of cardboard boxes - way beyond what a regular tenant would have - more like an export or import business.

Like I said, enough is enough, but I need some support to jet-propel me into the letters and meetings I am now ready to chase. One year later, I'm ready. All advice welcome.

Reply to the comment left by "Percy Vere" at "30/07/2014 - 09:47":

Percy I don't know if I have successfully left a comment here, or even two comments - sorry - I really don't understand how this forum works. Anyway, if you are reading two rather repetitive notes from me, my apologies.

If you're not, and this is the first time my comment is appearing - I am going to pursue this issue (my problem is almost exactly the same as the original poster's) with my MP and actually higher up than that in Westminster - using some contacts. So I need ammunition, help, support and everything this forum can give me.

Okay I am now going to hit 'post comment' and see what happens. Huge apologies if I am boring you all for the third time!

Well OP/JC/JM here with an update.
Section 8 served and expired however they're still in the property we counted 9 beds today!
The Courts have advised that there is a 4-6 week waiting list to hearing, plus then the judge will no doubt give a further 14-28 days to vacate. No rent received for Aug, no doubt Sept won't be forthcoming either so that wipes out all the deposit leaving me with a huge repair/refit bill...
So after a sense of humour failure I've decided to fight fire with fire and put an end to this sooner rather than later . As it turns out with a little detective work it transpires that the mastermind-the original lady who posed as the tenants parter in the first instance to secure the property actually lives full time in Poland and sends workers to the UK to reside at the properties she has fraudulently rented no doubt marking up a nice mark up along the way..The male partner who's name is on the tenancy is more than likely a spoof name/ ID.
The million dollar Q is will she really take me to court from Poland if i forceably evict these scumbags who are in my property? I'll take my chances on that and play the system as much as they are, So after a long discussion with some old mates in the building trade, i suspect that they will be out by next week and doors windows etc boarded up..If they break back into the property then thats breaking and entering - can they prove they ever lived there at all? No i don't think so maybe they might be able to say they once stayed there but have they got any tenancy agreements etc?..I suspect they'll disappear into the ether and on to the next poor unsuspecting LL..
The law is a complete ass in situations like this-its completely unfair that i am powerless to prevent all/anyone from entering/living/trashing my property...The neighbours are pulling their hair out too with the disorderly behaviour (fighting/police called/prostitutes/drinking on the street arguing with the neighbours the list goes on) this situation cannot be allowed to continue for another 2/3 months..

If you think about it, its a cunning scam, secure said property charge £50/60 a week pp in rent then put 10 people in there ( the rent i'm charging is £975pcm),,Then when you get rumbled simply stop paying the rent for 3 months or howerever long our pathetic legal systems takes, in this way you've then recovered all your lost deposit and made a nice bonus on the top!
Then a quick trip back to the UK to secure another property and off you go again!!
Well not now, not me, not today !!
Wish me luck JC