Homeless Homeowner – the law supports lawlessness

Homeless Homeowner – the law supports lawlessness

7:33 AM, 14th February 2014, About 11 years ago 64

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In an attempt to keep this brief, I have been renting my flat to my current tenants for almost 4 years. Last year I informed them that I will be needing the property. Their tenancy agreement was renewed but only for 6 months to which they agreed was enough time to sort out accommodation. The lines of communication have always been good and open with my tenants so you can imagine my shock and horror when on the day they were supposed to vacate the property and I move back in, they refuse to go. The irony is, they actually called the police and were told to leave the property and their tenancy was up. They then produced a council doc and the police informed me that I will need to legally evict them. Homeless Homeowner - the law supports lawlessness

Now, I’m not a property mogul, this was my home that was rented due to personal reasons. I had no idea of the procedure or how long the process will take. So here’s my dilemma; they are refusing to go, as they did not communicate with me and lead me to believe all is well, I now have no accommodation. I am 6 months pregnant and sleeping on my brothers sofa until I get advice as I’m told I can’t actually do anything.

I’m perplexed as I’m told these 2 young, able bodied individuals in full time employment do not have to pay me rent and theres nothing I can do about it. I’ve asked the council if they can help me since they are the ones advising people to stay on in other people’s properties..but as expected they don’t really care, it’s my problem.

Can anyone offer any advice? Paying rent and a mortgage while my tenants sit in my property rent free leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I’m so worried as I’m effectively homeless and see no resolution by the time my baby arrives! Just doesn’t make any sense to me…being a homeless homeowner is like being a starving baker, makes no sense at all.

All I’ve found is advice and guidance for tenants, where is the advice and help for gullible landlords like me??


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Jeremy Smith

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0:39 AM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ms Bee Ms Bee" at "14/02/2014 - 22:08":

I'm not sure what you mean about paying them £700, is that the deposit which you were holding ?
Nothing is void, you keep the deposit money for the rent, I'm not sure what you mean there either.
If you can get them to stay and continue to pay rent with a new TA, then use that money to pay for your rented apartment, it's only 4 days, can you go back, perhaps, the landlord already knows you and knows you are trustworthy.. ?

You don't have to come up with money for their deposit, you can have a TA without any deposit.
You could ask them to build up a deposit on a monthly basis, but that just complicates the issue in hand.
If only they continue to pay rent, then you've got cashflow to pay your rent and whatever money you were going to use to pay your mortgage, you still use to pay your mortgage.

If you insist on getting your property back, then you could be out of pocket by alot by the time it's all over.

You are definitely in a situation where Mark's rule of thumb of 20% cash to hand would have really paid off, but you were not to know this would happen.

Ray Davison

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9:00 AM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Unless it's got to the point where the tenants do not want to stay or you cannot rent elsewhere for some reason, then Jeremy makes a very good point. It may well be quicker and easier all round to let them stay and get them on a proper contractual footing. The only concern I would have with somone who has already refused to move out (Although you never gave them a formal legal notice either) is giving them another agreement althought you could just initially give them a short agreement say 2-3 months which would be no more than the optimistic time it will take to evict them.

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

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9:23 AM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ray Davison" at "15/02/2014 - 09:00":

Hi Ray

Forgive me for saying so but that's terrible advice.

A new two or three month agreement means that the tenant can walk away at the end of the agreement but the landlord can't seek possession until at least month six unless you can prove that the tenant is seriously in default, e.g. two or more months into arrears.

Any new agreement means that you can't obtain possession under section 21 for a very minimum of six months. The tenant is on a statutory periodic tenancy now which requires two months notice from the landlord, one months notice from the tenant, so why change that?
.

Romain Garcin

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9:47 AM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Mark, note that if you issue a replacement tenancy to an existing tenant there is no 6 month period before getting a possession order under s.21.
This minimum period only applies for the first tenancy.

That being said, I don't see the point either of granting these tenants any new fixed term tenancy.

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

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9:52 AM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Romain " at "15/02/2014 - 09:47":

Are you absolutely sure about that?

If you are right I've definitely learned something new today and clearly would owe an apology to Ray.

Given that I don't know anything about you Romain, other than having read your posts here on Property118, you will have to forgive me for being somewhat sceptical and needing to check this out further. I don't even know your last name or whether Romain is even your real name! LOL I do know most of our anonymous regular posters though.
.

Romain Garcin

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10:16 AM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "15/02/2014 - 09:52":

Skepticism is a virtue, Mark.

Reference is s.21(5), which defines the "6 month rule":

(5) Where an order for possession under subsection (1) or (4) above is made in relation to a dwelling-house let on a tenancy to which section 19A above applies, the order may not be made so as to take effect earlier than—
(a) in the case of a tenancy which is not a replacement tenancy, six months after the beginning of the tenancy, and
(b) in the case of a replacement tenancy, six months after the beginning of the original tenancy.

Ms Bee Ms Bee

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10:18 AM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Even though I am going to attempt negotiation, would anyone advise I still issue the correct formal notice. I've seen where I cannot issue a section 21 unless I have done this anyway.

Furthermore, can I even issue a section 21 in light of the deposit issue?

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

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10:41 AM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Ms Bee Ms Bee" at "15/02/2014 - 10:18":

You can issue section 21 but it will not be valid unless you have already dealt with the deposit protection issue. A simple agreement, signed by you and your tenant (and independently witnessed) confirming mutual agreement of your tenants deposit having been used for one month of rent should suffice. I'd suggest having this prepared in advance of your meeting. Get that signed, then proceed with the advice offered by Ray Davidson in this comment >>> http://www.property118.com/homeless-homeowner-the-law-supports-lawlessness/63713/comment-page-3/#comment-37627

NOTE FOR RAY - I accept I was wrong earlier and I apologise. Maybe I need to book myself on a Landlord Accreditation course. 25 years in the business and still learning! 😉
.

Industry Observer

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18:32 PM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

I'm out. I don't think we've still had the full story here.

To Ns Bee Ms Bee (how much does that handle tell you?) let me give you some advice, which is:-

Don't believe what CAB tell you
Don't believe what Local Authority tell you
Don't believe what well meaning friends tell you
Don't believe what any solicitor tells you unless an L&T Law expert

I'm out

Ray Davison

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23:14 PM, 15th February 2014, About 11 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "15/02/2014 - 10:41":

Hi Mark, apology accepted no problem (I half expected the comment you made from someone). As you say we all learn someting every day and that's one of the reasons I come here. It may become incremental in nature and you are about 15 years ahead of me but every snippet can save you grief. I actually learned this bit of the 6 month rule on a half day landlords course I went on eight years after becoming a landlord! Romains comment explains the reason for my suggestion of a new agreement and my thinking behind it was that you return the deposit and start again on a proper legal footing, ensuring rent was due and that a valid S21 could be issued if necessary but only if the questioner was happy to continue with the relationship going forward. Pragmatic is often better than principle in this business.

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