HB Tenant Lies to Benefits Office

Reply to the comment left by "Sunny Rsa" at "03/06/2015 - 06:43":

I'm with Sunny Rsa as its all very true. Plus, councils are selling up and off loading on to the private sector and if we put a foot wrong they'll slap us with a big fat juicy fine! I've had lots of dealings with our council and make no mistake, they are after money and don't waste time chasing tenants as its fruitless so they go after the l/Lord!

Reply to the comment left by "Jack Ass" at "06/06/2015 - 23:24":

Hi Jack Ass

I agree that the government are not bothered, though I'm not convinced by your reasoning, but it is clear that they do not care about landlords. The media portray landlords as evil people preying on the poor unfortunate tenants, and the government sustain this with policies that further demonise landlords and impose burdens that make it virtually impossible to offer the high standard of service and accommodation that we wish to provide. How can landlords faced with bad tenants, overwhelming bureaucracy, and a legal system not fit for purpose, offer quality accommodation at affordable rents? Each bureaucratic burden and legal delay increases the cost of providing the housing, and thus increases the rents that have to be charged.

Reply to the comment left by "Doreen Marr" at "06/06/2015 - 21:21":

Hi Doreen

Just to clarify........

You can get a CCJ if the debt is less than £600, and you can also call in county court bailiffs, but if you want to transfer up to High Court Enforcement Officers (who have wider powers to seize goods) then that is when the debt has to be over £600 I believe.

You can also request direct deductions from a tenant's welfare benefits (JSA/ESA) while they are still your tenant, providing certain conditions are met, but unfortunately this option ceases when the tenant moves out. I have explained this process in much more detail in some other threads on this website a few months ago.

I rarely find time to post on this site, but here we go, it's Sunday morning and only I'm up!
I have been renting to HB tenants for over 13 years and have made a successful business out of it. I'm a multi property landlord and own an independent letting agency in Wolverhampton.
At this moment we are managing well over 100 single HB supported units, from 1 bed flats to 4 bed houses.
No one owes us any significant arrears.
When dealing with this type of tenant (every working tenant is a P45 away from joining this club), the first thing to begin to work on, is developing a relationship with the local HB office. This needs to be with a view of developing a contact at mid management level. Try to encourage landlord forums through the local authority and if successful, local contacts will be forged. I have been involved in these things in the two areas where I do my business, namely Wolverhampton and Walsall and I know who to speak to when things go wrong.
I find that these people aren't the enemy, they are public sector workers following legislation and guidance.
However, the key is this. Assessment of the tenant prior to renting.
We go out to their own properties and interview them on their ground. We encourage family members to be there, particularly parents. We just get a gut feeling for them and if it's not right, walk away. (It does help that both my wife and I have the experience of being ex cops of over 30 years standing, as do some other my other staff).
Some of our best tenants are single parents, living in properties near their parents, people with disabilities, OAPs etc etc.
Now last weekend I spent 4 hours hunting down a man who works for a blue chip company because he isn't answering the phone and he's not at his flat. The rent is a 2 weeks late. I can't apply for direct payment to his company!!! I can to the local authority! It's sorted now because I went back to his mother, who was present at the initial interview.
The new world is going to be universal credit. This will put even more importance on the initial assessment because our local contacts will be of little use as DWP will administer these payments, 1 month in arrears. This is a whole new story on it's own.
I conclude that it's not about where tenants find the money to pay the rent from (HB or work), it's about who they are as individuals.
For you Doreen, there is no point in taking a deposit, if you're going to release it when there is a legitimate claim on it. Once most tenants have gone, they've gone, even if you know where they are. You can't get blood out of a stone.
You've lost two weeks rent, move on, get it re let and learn from your experience.
Watch who you give the keys to!

Reply to the comment left by "Lyndon Whitehouse" at "07/06/2015 - 08:29":

Lyndon

That may work for you in your area, but I can assure you that where we are based, much of what you say is simply not the case!

LA's are simply out to 'tick one off the list' and are really not interested if that tenant becomes a problem. In fact they actively advise them what they can get away with and how far to push a LL before they should come back for re-housing!

Maybe there is a completely different culture where you are, but that model simply does not work down here. More and more are sticking two fingers up to LHA and LA's after the repeated treatment they have suffered by trying to 'help' the housing problem.

I am glad that you have made a successful business which is what we set out to do. Initially we looked to help young and expectant Mums, what we got was turned over left right and centre with zero support from the LA, who we tried working with by aiming to reduce their priority housing list.

As regards your comment about employed tenants only being a P45 away from LHA, maybe.....but the important difference is that most employed will do ANYTHING rather than sitting on benefits. They also generally have a few more assets that are of interest should debt recovery be needed.

An example of how there is a better chance of getting arrears repaid is where I acquired an attachment of earnings order against a teacher who worked at one of the local colleges. I might add that the tenant was found initially by using Belvoir!'s tenant finder service. It later came to light that he had CCJ's and 2 other attachment to earnings orders that were not revealed by Belvoir! Either that or they didn't discover them for whatever reason.

Another example is a couple that owed 2 months rent, both working, secured a CCJ but not until I used the Sheriffs Office did we see a penny. But the important point is they had ASSETS, which your typical LHA tenant does not.

You are also much more likely to secure a deposit from employed tenants than unemployed.

For us the LA has well and truly cooked its goose!

André

Hi Doreen

This is the hard bit not taking things personally and feeling ripped off. All business have parts that lose money.

The HB system is in a shambles where tenants have all the cards and the landlord has next to none.

The benefits office will tell you it is the tenants money and not the landlords even when you point out that they can only claim when you provide the tenancy agreement and property. So when they don't pay you this is not fraud as it is there money. (I believe this to be ridiculous to me they are claiming money by deception which is fraud to claim money and not use it for the purpose it was claimed would be fraud by every other situation).

So when a tenant claims housing and has a partner living there which is fraud guess who they claim the money from if direct payment was made to the landlord(even though he has then used the money to pay the mortgage) They claim it was an overpayment which it is not it is fraud and the payment was due. The landlord could not have known if he did then they should claim the money back.

The time housing take to inform the landlord what is happening about a claim is terrible. Quite often well after they have stopped paying.

I had one last week where they had suspended payment from Dec 14 until the May 15. Under there rules they were meant to send the payment to me as it was over £500.

I phoned Friday to ask if it had been dealt with yet to be informed the payment had been sent to the tenant. The girl who took my call knew there had been a mistake and then told me as I had not been in contact with them to ask for direct payment then it was given to the tenant. the decision was made on the 21 May 15. I phoned on the 20 May 15 and was told in that conversation that the payment would be sent direct to me. I also flew to Scotland at the start of April to sort this out

It is crazy the government think tenants who have little or no money to be given huge amounts and expect them to hand it straight over. I am luck I have a decent tenant and when I phoned them they paid it into my account that morning. I could have lost the lot if it had been a different tenant.

I do in most cases pick my own tenants and it works out ok. It is the tenants with the letting agents that seem to cause me the problems

I've said it b4 and will say it again till someone believes it. The government aren't daft, they give HB to the tenant knowing full well it probably won't be paid on "therefore' giving them more money in their pockets 'therefore' preventing anarchy, who knows! I often write to the government and seek no reply, if we all do it and wear them down then something might be done but keep it to one short paragraph otherwise they can't be bothered reading it! I like to be frank!!

Reply to the comment left by "Andre Gysler" at "02/06/2015 - 11:32":

When did the law change which allows 4 motnhs deposit to be taken? I was under the impression that "deposits" could only be a maximum of 2 months. Rent in advance is different, of course. I think rent in advance is a better option as a 4-month deposit which has been protected leaves the landlord vulnerable to the tenant who disputes damages and rent arrears.

Reply to the comment left by "Sharon Betton" at "10/06/2015 - 14:05":

Sharon

As far as I am aware the 2 month limit is only as a precaution against the tenant being able to (in theory) assign the lease. I do not believe there is a legal maximum for a deposit.

Rent in advance is no guarantee that a tenant would continue to pay rent when served notice and given our direct experience of LA's advising HB tenants to force our hand right up to employing bailiff enforcement (which can take months and months) we felt better protected with a larger deposit.

Let's face it, S21 - 2 months, Court date 4-8 weeks, Judgement to end of tenancy 2-6 weeks, application for bailiff up to 4 weeks, scheduling bailiff eviction ~ 4 weeks.

Of course, High Court enforcement can be much quicker and ultimately less costly with certain tenants but even still you are looking at a minimum of 3.5 months to 5 months at the thick end.

Holding such a large deposit might make the tenant think twice before ceasing rent payments, especially if they had to borrow the money and find someone to stand guarantor.

We simply decided that enough was enough after being betrayed by the LA just so they could minimise their own problems in housing people. The LA have literally cost us tens and tens of thousands of pounds by 'advising' HB tenants to sit tight until the bailiffs come and it simply isn't right.

The law doesn't protect us in that situation, neither does the Court system and certainly not the LA/LHA so we protect ourselves as best we can.

Back to the 4 months deposit, the assignment of lease is a possibility in theory, however, we have found that while things are running smoothly and there are no arrears or damage and/or notice has not been served, this wouldn't even be a consideration.

On the other hand, if there are arrears and/or damage deductions could be made to the deposit which would then reduce the amount held and reduce any likelihood of assignment becoming a possibility........in theory.

André

Anything over an above the contractual rent due (e.g. taking four month's rent upfront on a monthly tenancy agreement), will be construed as a deposit.

I tested this in Court.

If you want to take four month's rent, theoretically you'd need to have a four-monthly tenancy agreement.