Grounds to serve notice?

If you read this extract from a statement by the Crown Prosecution Service it may give you an idea of the Court may determine a reasonable action. You may also assume such thinking would migrate across into a civil matter such as we are discussing.
However, as my old English teacher used to say,

To ASSUME can make an ASS out of U and ME!!!!
intruders
Householders and the use of force against intruders

Joint Public Statement from the Crown Prosecution Service and the Association of Chief Police Officers
What is the purpose of this statement?
It is a rare and frightening prospect to be confronted by an intruder in your own home. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and Chief Constables are responding to public concern over the support offered by the law and confusion about householders defending themselves. We want a criminal justice system that reaches fair decisions, has the confidence of law-abiding citizens and encourages them actively to support the police and prosecutors in the fight against crime.

Wherever possible you should call the police. The following summarises the position when you are faced with an intruder in your home, and provides a brief overview of how the police and CPS will deal with any such events.

Does the law protect me? What is 'reasonable force'?
Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a means of defence.

As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you may use.

Hi
Fred says in his post tenant on a periodic can he give One month notice, why are others mentioning a week.

Others mention 28 days is an accepted custom. With a periodic I thought the tenant can give One month notice and the LL had to give Two months Notice. Has the rules changed?

My tenants are given a 6 month AST, Inventory and Section 21 all at the same time which they sign for. I explain about moving to a periodic and the amount of notice that is required by both parties.

I also say in my letter if during the periodic they break they tenancy agreement I would give them ONE MONTH notice to leave. SO IF they cause trouble they get One month, if I need my property back (to sell ect) they will get 2months notice.

Based on the fact a Section 21 has already been served during the AST now they have rolled on to a Periodic, I don't know if One month notice would be seen as acceptable by the court as I have never had to put this into practice.

Hope someone with more knowledge can advise, I would never even have thought that less than One month from the AST start date would be acceptable.

The 28 days notice was in regard to a lodger not a tenant.

Fred's question was about evicting a tenant on a periodic, and my question also stands as posted. he did not say anything about evicting a lodger, so why do people evade the question asked and get side tracked.

Fred if you have a lodger you want to evict, please ask in another posting.

As far as I know (others can put me right) your tenant has moved on from an AST onto a Periodic. If you have not served a Sec 21 before this happened, as described in my posting. you should now serve a Sec 21. It has to be served before the start date of the original tenancy.

If the tenancy started on the 15th of the month, the notice should be received by them before the 15, with proof of posting/delivery, and dated to leave will be the 16th in 2 months time.

If the tenancy started on the 15th give them notice now. The notice will start from the 15th Nov and you should have vacant possession on 16th January 2015.

Hopes this helps and others will now comment on serving notice on tenants who have already been served a Sec 21 with their AST who have moved to a periodic, Also on tenants not served at the start who are now on a periodic, I believe it is as stated 2 months.

Reply to the comment left by "Recardo Knights" at "26/10/2014 - 09:08":

My tenants are given a 6 month AST, Inventory and Section 21 all at the same time

The section 21 may not be valid under these circumstances, as there does not seem to be time to comply with the deposit protection requirements.

[it is my understanding that] For a section 21 notice to be valid the deposit must have been protected and Prescribed Information served (see, for example, this Shelter link).
In my opinion it would be difficult to prove that you have done things in the right order if everything has the same date (contract/deposit; then protection; then S21).

Reply to the comment left by "Michael Barnes" at "28/10/2014 - 09:34":

I'm sure there's some case law (though annoyingly I can't find it at the moment) that says that issueing a s21 with an AST and then later complying with the deposit requirements (within 30 days) does mean that the s21 will be valid.

This is because the requirements are that the deposit must be protected within 30 days and prescribed info served within 30 days. S.21s will not be valid where landlords do not comply with the requirements. Therefore, landlords can issue a S.21 at the start as long as they comply with the requirements (That are that deopsit must be protected and prescribed info served within 30 days of reciept of the deposit).

I'll search for the case law and post when I find it.

Reply to the comment left by "Recardo Knights" at "26/10/2014 - 12:08":

Your advice on dates is wrong.

1. [assuming notice is to end on last day of a tenency period Housing Act 1988 section 21(4)] If tenancy started on 15th, then a period ends on the 14th and so you seek posession for after 14th and if the tenant complies, then you have vacant posession on 15th.

2. However, following Spencer vs Taylor (2013) all that is needed for a Statutory Periodic Tenancy is two clear month's notice ending on any day (because of the word may in Housing Act 1988 section 21(2).

My solicitor's advice is not to serve notice inder a sub-paragraph of section 21 but just to refer to section 21 (and ensure you include the information to satisfy both para (1) and para(4))

Reply to the comment left by "Michael Barnes" at "28/10/2014 - 09:34":

The case law re: serving s.21 before protecting the deposit can be found here:

http://www.landlordsguild.com/service-of-section-21-before-deposit-protection-but-within-30-days/

S.21's served before the protecting of a deposit should still be valid as the penalty of it not being valid is a sanction for non-compliance. Therefore if you protect the deposit within 30 days as the requirements state; you are complying. Proceed with caution on this. Landlord's guild do not advise issuing s.21 before protecting deposit.

Reply to the comment left by "Paul Franklin" at "28/10/2014 - 09:49":

I would be surprised if there is such case law, as the Housing Act 2004 section 215 (1) seems quite clear:

215 Sanctions for non-compliance.

    (a)the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or .
   (b)the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to the deposit.

However, this does mean that there is no problem if no deposit is taken.

Reply to the comment left by "Paul Franklin" at "28/10/2014 - 10:03":

I stand corrected.

Thanks.