Garage dispute?

Garage dispute?

0:03 AM, 10th November 2023, About 8 months ago 28

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Hi, I rented a garage space in a block from a neighbour, we drew up an agreement from the internet, no problem. I erected a sectional garage on the space to store a car, I have receipts.

Unfortunately, the neighbour has sold up. The new owner now wants the space back and the garage even though I showed him receipts for it. He still states it’s now his garage because it’s in his space.

I suggested he pay me half of the cost for the garage, but he refused. I want to take the garage down. He posted a section 21 notice through my door obviously printed from the internet, giving me 4 weeks to get my car out and give him the keys. He has threatened to knock the garage down with my car in it.

Has anyone experienced anything like this?

Many Thanks,

John


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Smiffy

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7:23 AM, 11th November 2023, About 8 months ago

Use of the space and notice to surrender will be governed by the contract. That will still be in place regardless of owner.

Would be interested to know if previous owner actually told the new owner about the contract.

As for the building itself, most contracts require you to return land/buildings in "as found" state, so dismantle it and remove it.

Greg Trevorrit

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20:34 PM, 11th November 2023, About 8 months ago

Some things to consider:
Was the buyer of the property/garage space aware before s/he signed the contract to buy that the garage was not included in the sale?
Have you discussed the matter with the former neighbour (who may well have profited from the sale of your garage)?
Does the new owner of the space have deeds that include a garage space or garage?
Do you know what the sale details said as estate agents have a legal duty to accurately describe a property; that’s assuming it went through an estate agent.
As far as I know once a new owner takes legal possession they may do as they wish with their property so long as anybody affected is given appropriate notice.

GlanACC

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18:40 PM, 12th November 2023, About 8 months ago

S21 is not valid so ignore that. They new owner bought the property with your garage on it however it is going to be your problem to resolve the issue as if I was in his place I would tell you where to get off. If you remove it I think you are asking for a whole heap of trouble. Put yourself in his place. Why would his solicitor have picked this up if the seller hadn't told him about it.

Kizzie

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18:57 PM, 12th November 2023, About 8 months ago

You pay solicitor / conveyancers to do the due diligence. It seems the agreement may not have been drawn up by a solicitor and witnessed, and not placed with the Title Deeds. Further not known whether the extension breaches the Title or whether planning permission should have been sought.
Was there any payment or rental and if declared to HMRC and will they go after the new owner?

Danny Clarke

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21:25 PM, 12th November 2023, About 8 months ago

First of all I’d like to say it’s been very interesting reading everyone’s comments on this matter that I have been trying to resolve with John . I used the s21 simply because on the parking/garage space rental agreement printed / copied from the internet no witnesses between John and the previous owner it stated a notice of 4 weeks was required and on the land register of witch there are 2 matches under my address one being the property it’s self and the other being the garage en block under the same address and I didn’t consider it to be a commercial property hence the reason behind the s21 after viewing the property back in February and the previous owner pointing out the additional garage and reading the property description I quote ( off road parking leading to single garage,additional garage en block ) on witch I have spoken to the estate agents and they was unaware of a neighbour purchasing/owning the garage the previous owner for some reason doesn’t want to answer the phone or reply to my messages so John as had since February when the sold sign went up to make sure that the correct paperwork/contract was in place between himself and the previous owner I took possession off the keys at the beginning of august and the spent 8-9 weeks gutting and refurbishing the property before me and my family moved in again John said nothing I approached John around 3 weeks ago to ask him when he was thinking of getting out of the garage as I’d told the previous owner to pass the message on when we had moved in we would need the garage back to witch he then told me he’d brought the garage and previous owner had promised him it was all down in writing and then proceeded to tell me he’d paid £3500 just give me half of that and I’ll get out within the space of an hour the garage went down to £1700 to witch for the 3rd time I told him leave it with me I will speak to the solicitors who dealt with the sale for me and to the estate agent and previous owner and we will go from there John then went on to tell me I’ve only lived here 3 weeks and already pissing the neighbours off and I’m just out for a free garage anyway after speaking with the solicitor litigation team for some advice and them telling me the garage is on the land register ect ect and it is legally owned by me and that johns argument should be with the previous owner I then wrote John a letter with a offer of £250 as a good will gesture and apologised to him for the mess but I’d just Came along and brought the property with the additional garage and hoped we could get past it and if he was to pursue the previous owner I would assist him anyway I could John said he would be out before the time period that was given as he is goin on holiday before that date then fast forward yesterday evening I have a knock at the door and 2 police officers asking to come in and talk to me about my threatening behaviour towards John. Luckily for me we have a ring door bell anyway sorry for the rant and gramma and spelling just needed to get some of my side across many thanks Danny

Kizzie

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9:28 AM, 13th November 2023, About 8 months ago

What advice did your solicitor give?

Tom Thumb

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11:43 AM, 14th November 2023, About 8 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Danny Clarke at 12/11/2023 - 21:25Always fascinating to hear the other side of the story.
Obviously, it's not possible for us to know the full accuracy of either account. This is certainly not a situation of YOUR making, Danny, so you seem to be a completely innocent party here.
To a lesser degree, it's not fully of John's making either - it should have been sorted by the previous owner. Full stop.
This previous owner seems reluctant to become involved(!), but could almost certainly be 'forced' to, by either your or John's solicitor. But, unless such action could be included within your existing conveyancing solicitor's arrangement, then who the heck wants to 'go there'!
Any other way to try and sort this? What, for example, can we state as agreed or indisputable 'facts'? Please you and John correct any of these:
1) Danny's deeds indicate clear ownership of a 'garage' in this block. It is outlined in red on the deeds map, and there is reference to a 'garage'.
2) The original garage was in a poor or very poor condition. Possibly not really fit for purpose.
3) The original owner had no particular use for this garage, so was happy to rent it out to John.
4) John, on his decision, at his own expense, and totally for his own purposes, paid for a new garage - this was £3.5k.
5) The 'contract' between John and the vendor was for a (monthly?) rental sum, and the only other detail of interest was an agreed 4-week termination period.
6) There was no written or implied expectation of the duration of this agreement. I'm guessing that John hoped and even expected it would last for a LOT longer than it did, or else he wouldn't have made this £3.5k investment. But no 'minimum duration' was implied, written, or stated. I presume that John also acknowledged that - at some point in the future - he WOULD have had to remove his car, and say goodbye to his garage.
7) There was no verbal or written agreement between John and the old neighbour that John would retain ownership of the physical garage, and could take possession of it when the contract came to an end, leaving the old neighbour with just an empty parking space.
8) John has no expectation of the rental agreement continuing - he accepts that this 'contract' terminated when the old neighbour moved on.
9) The contracted 4-week termination period has loooong expired.
10) The desired outcomes for each party would appear to be:
John: to be compensated to some degree for his expenditure, having had the expected rental period curtailed somewhat. He is understandably miffed that his rented garage will no longer be available to him, but this is compounded by the investment he made into it, for which he appears to have no further entitlement.
Danny: For John to remove his car, and end any claim for the garage.
Wow. I have no idea how this could pan out legally, but I suspect - if what I've outlined above is effectively correct - that John does not have any case whatsoever. (This could change depending on the wording of this unseen contract, or even (tho' much harder to evidence) on any verbal contract made between John and ex-neighbour - if, for example, the neighbour DID promise that John could have his garage back. If this verbal arrangement was witnessed, or if the ex-neighbour signed a 'statement of fact' to this effect, but that would then land the ex-neighb in the poo as he should have sorted this at the time of sale. So I suspect we can assume that just ain't going to happen.
My gut - but gut only - says that John has no case here, BUT the new neighbour has seemingly ended up with a nicer garage than he would otherwise have done. I would therefore urge the two to arrive at a figure that ends this dispute. Certainly, neither of you become bolshie or tetchy or aggressive or threatening - that is a hiding to utter MISERY if this escalates legally. CEASE, if you have already crossed that line.
Deep breaths.
Danny, it's a nice garage, yes?! The old one was tatty and leaking (possibly)! What - really - is the new garage 'worth' to you? £1k?

GlanACC

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14:14 PM, 14th November 2023, About 8 months ago

Reply to the comment left by Tom Thumb at 14/11/2023 - 11:43
The new neighbour ended up with a nicer garage than he otherwise would have. NO, thats NOT the case the new neighbour wouldn't have seen the old garage and so would be in his rights to assume the new garage was part of his purchase. I don't see it as the new neighbours problem to sort out as he has done nothing wrong, and presumably as his solicitor knew nothing of this agreement the solicitor has done nothing wrong either.

Kizzie

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17:12 PM, 14th November 2023, About 8 months ago

So what lessons do we draw?

Tom Thumb

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10:44 AM, 15th November 2023, About 8 months ago

Reply to the comment left by GlanACC at 14/11/2023 - 14:14Not quite what I said.
Yes, Danny bought his new home which had this new garage, and that is what he both expected, and is entitled to (unless John can find a way to EVIDENCE a contrary agreement with the old neighbour where John would retain possession - highly unlikely, and I suggest that would then be for John's conveyancing solicitor to sort with the old neighbour). For the purpose of this case AS WE SEE IT ON HERE, we can assume there is NO additional information to be brought (John has failed to provide even the 'contract').
All I am saying is that, had John NOT replaced the garage, then Danny would be in the EXACT SAME position he is now, EXCEPT for it being with an old and tatty garage instead. I doubt whether this would have made any difference to his purchase of the property, but the simple fact remains is that he is 'fortunate' in having a better garage than he would otherwise have.
Surely that is a truism?
I think we can reasonably assume that, at some point in the medium future (or, possibly right away if he had a precious car), Danny would want or need to update the old tatty garage, had John not 'done this for him'. So, in the longer term, John has saved Danny a fair bit of work, and a fair bit of expense.
That's all I'm saying.
I cannot see any way that John can OBLIGE Danny to 'compensate' him for this new garage, and John should remove his car right away - John has no right whatsoever to keep his car on Danny's land (again, failing a valid contract to the contrary). But, I'd like to think that, if the whole situation were explained to me as the new owner, I'd feel inclined to arrive at a morally-fair resolution, and a new garage for, say, £1k sounds like a damned good deal to me.
And for harmony, priceless.
Once harmony is lost, however, then things are much harder to resolve.

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