EICR requires full re-wire?

EICR requires full re-wire?

14:08 PM, 6th October 2022, About 2 years ago 31

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Hello, Our flat in London has failed its EICR with code 2s and 3s. The electrician says it needs a full re-wire.

That’s ok (except that it will cost) as the flat’s wiring is maybe 40 yrs old.

What I need advice on is what, as landlords, is our position?

The managing agent has established that doing the work with the tenants in situ is not feasible and that they are agreeable to vacating the property in spring for 2 weeks.

How long can we wait before starting the work?

If we need them to vacate sooner they ask for a month rent free for two weeks of disruption.

That’s ok so far (except for the loss of income) but they have a lot of furniture (in addition to what we as landlords provide), and a lot of stuff that they say they have nowhere to put.

Our furniture could be moved into middle of rooms and covered.

They expect us to pay for removal, storage and moving back of their stuff. We’d rather not get involved in that.

Are we obliged to do it?

Thanks,

Dana


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Justin Lee

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14:09 PM, 21st October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 21/10/2022 - 13:37
Not sure from a gas engineer point of view, but they probably could. From an electricians perspective though it would definitely get a C3 and arguably a C2 especially if the consumer unit is plastic so not fire rated.

michaelwgroves

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14:31 PM, 21st October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Justin Lee at 21/10/2022 - 14:09
What regulation says it's a C2 ?

Justin Lee

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18:18 PM, 21st October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by michaelwgroves at 21/10/2022 - 14:31This is how I think of the coding:
C1 will kill you now if you get into contact with it.
C2 will kill you if something happens .
C3 is a suggestion to bring up to the latest regs.
So in the case of a plastic consumer unit made from combustible material with no fire protection from arcs or spark and a potential gas leak within 150mm it could well be argued that this was a C2.

That would be my take on it.

michaelwgroves

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18:31 PM, 21st October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Justin Lee at 21/10/2022 - 18:18
I agree with your codes, but what regulation are you relying on to backup your opinion?
We all have our own opinions, that's why we need the regs, so its black and white.
Using your scenario, why is 151mm now deemed safe?
Sorry, rhetorical question..............

Justin Lee

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18:42 PM, 21st October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by michaelwgroves at 21/10/2022 - 18:31
I'd be here all day if I started stating all of the regs that you could apply. However for starters 421.1.2 and 421.1.6 talks about equipment that emits sparks and arcs and particles not affecting other fixed equipment. Then there is all the non combustible material regs as well. The trouble with the set of regs that we work from is that they are for domestic and domestic regs state that an EICR should basically be done on the set of regs that was applicable at the time of installation. However rental properties are not domestic but I don't think they are classed as commercial.
So personally with my Landlord head on I try to keep my properties up to the latest set of regs within reason. In this current climate Landlords need to be whiter that white.

michaelwgroves

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10:50 AM, 22nd October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Justin Lee at 21/10/2022 - 18:42
Chapter 42 deals with thermal effects, those regulations are not relevant to the proximity of a gas meter. A gas leak would fill a whole room. Therefore, the turning on of a simple light switch could equally ignite the gas leak. There is nothing in the regs about how close a consumer unit or anything else should be placed from a gas meter.
A couple of errors in your comments;
Rental properties ARE domestic, that is an absolute.
An EICR is NOT done on past Regulations, it IS based on current regulations. See notes on page 1 of any EICR.

Justin Lee

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15:33 PM, 22nd October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by michaelwgroves at 22/10/2022 - 10:50
A fire in a plastic consumer unit would definitely effect a gas meter within 150mm therefore section 42 thermal effects should be considered. BS6891-2005 8.16.2 Gas Regs is where you will find the 150mm rule. At the end of the day if a Tennant dies in an explosion or fire then the landlord is responsible hence the landlord gets a Gas Safety cert and an EICR to show that there property is not dangerous so then the contractor is liable. So the electrician is definitely fully within his right to put this down as a C2 as it is a potentially dangerous occurrence. In addition to that I doubt very much that the property is insured with a plastic consumer unit located within 150mm of the gas meter.

michaelwgroves

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16:59 PM, 22nd October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Justin Lee at 22/10/2022 - 15:33
"A fire in a plastic consumer unit would definitely effect a gas meter within 150mm"
As would anything that caught light within 150mm of a gas leak. Our regulations are silent on this. You cannot code this. You must work within the scope of BS 7671:2018+A2:2022. The gas meter proximity is out of scope.
However, as you have some knowledge of the gas regulations, I think it would be correct to list this as an observation. Similar to an out-of-date smoke detector. But you should be careful of not overstepping the mark, unless you have detailed knowledge of the gas regulations. Otherwise, you risk giving misleading information.
Our regulations are NOT retrospective; therefore, a new regulation does not instantly make a safe installation, suddenly unsafe, it's just a new regulation for all NEW work. But I do not know how gas regulations work on this, I would assume the same, otherwise when this regulation went live, 100,000 of safe homes would automatically be deemed unsafe.
I would be interested in a gas safe engineers view on this. But ultimately, it is for the gas safe engineer to note this on his report and take appropriate action, this should not be coded on an EICR.
The insurance comment is nonsense, I won't dignify this with a comment.

TheMaluka

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7:14 AM, 23rd October 2022, About 2 years ago

Reply to the comment left by michaelwgroves at 22/10/2022 - 10:50
If rental properties are domestic why does my Local Authority insist that I run a business and ban me from taking domestic rubbish to the tip? At the same time HMRC insist I am not running a business!

Dana

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16:39 PM, 10th November 2022, About 2 years ago

Hi all, I was hoping to successfully conclude this Q&A session as we had a second inspection done, the wiring passed, but we did decide to re-wire once the flat is empty.
However, the electrician was pretty quick doing it (not cheap) and now the tenants are saying there is a problem with the lights.
Can anyone recommend an electrician not too far from SW15 in London?
Many thanks

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