Deed of Trust CONFUSION! HELP!

Deed of Trust CONFUSION! HELP!

11:05 AM, 30th August 2016, About 8 years ago 29

Text Size

I will try to keep this as simple as possible! Deed of Trust

I am the sole owner of 5 buy to let properties on mortgage.

I wish to remain the sole owner by way of land registry.

My wife has done majority of the leg work and finances towards the building of this portfolio – albeit in my name.

1. Can I set up a deed of trust which says she is 99% owner and therefore receives 99% rent. She does not work therefore we will make a tax saving. I work and pay 40% tax!

2. As I am sole legal owner – is it necessary to fill in form 17? From what I understand and after conducting hours of research- form 17 is for jointly held property only…?

3. If I am able to do the above (DOT without HMRC form 17). Do I simply STOP filling my self assessment with HMRC and START a new one in the wife’s name?

Please help!

Thanks

Doctor Dee


Share This Article


Comments

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

17:45 PM, 26th September 2017, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by David John at 26/09/2017 - 16:17
Further point, if A is not married to B there will be a deemed consideration at market value even if the property is gifted. This may give rise to SDLT and CGT, both of which must be declared of course.

Matt

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

0:17 AM, 13th March 2018, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 29/10/2016 - 09:54
I have a very similar situation as the OP. The quote from tsem9520 is relating to a declaration of bare trust, not a deed of trust: "There is nothing in the above declarations to indicate that either is a deed (TSEM9530)."

1) However, does it mean that a declaration of bare trust (something like “I declare that I hold the property described as XXXXX for my wife absolutely” ) written by me is sufficient for tax planning purposes?

2) If so, as my property has mortgage involved, does it incur SDLT on the mortgage?

3) I saw many people keep 1% while transferring 99% to spouse. What's the benefit of keeping the 1%? Does it mean my wife and me can both use CGT allowance when selling the property? And if so, on what percentages of our allowance?

Thanks!

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

11:58 AM, 13th March 2018, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Matt at 13/03/2018 - 00:17
Hi Matt

If you would like to read the HMRC manual on this it starts at the page liked below.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/stamp-duty-land-tax-manual/sdltm31700

Once you have read the manual then you will be able to form a better opinion as to using the short form of words quoted above or having a more robust Declaration of Trust by way of deed. The latter is the only variation we recommend.

The fees for a private consultation are £400 inclusive of VAT and the cost of dealing with the required documentation is £250 + VAT per property including disbursements, Form 17 if appropriate and severing joint tenancy at HM Land Registry where appropriate.

The SDLT rules were changed in the 2017 Autumn Budget but HMRC's guidance has not been updated yet. Our current interpretation is that SDLT is no longer payable on transfers between spouses, which is different to our position pre-Budget. The new Budget policy in regards to SDLT on transfers between spouses is linked below below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/stamp-duty-land-tax-higher-rates-minor-amendments/stamp-duty-land-tax-higher-rates-minor-amendments

The 99:1 as opposed to "why not 100%" has been widely debated among the legal professions. Our perception of the consensus is that 99:1 splits are better so we follow that general logic and common wisdom in the absence of anything more concrete.

Matt

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

23:57 PM, 15th March 2018, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 13/03/2018 - 11:58
Thanks for the pointers Mark! I have read the manual but am a bit confused.

Regarding "more robust Declaration of Trust by way of deed. The latter is the only variation we recommend." -
What're the main differences between bare trust and deed of trust or what're the benefits of deed of trust? I understand that in order to execute a deed of trust normally a Form A restriction needs to be registered at Land Registry? If so, it seems to be more restrictive and will very likely cause problems when re-mortgaging?

I consulted with my mortgage advisor also. For HMRC, apart from declaration of trust, usually the rental income needs to be paid into my wife's account directly. This will cause problems when re-mortgaging (BTL) as usually part of the criteria is that my rental income will cover the cost of my interest by, e.g., 125%. Now I'm not sure how I can get around it…

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

7:37 AM, 16th March 2018, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Matt at 15/03/2018 - 23:57
The rent does not need to be paid to your wife. If can be paid to a joint account.

When you come to refinance you would do so in joint names and change the title to show joint ownership at HM Land Registry to tenants in common.

Your other question is answered in the manual you say you have read. You obviously missed that part. You might as well read read the manual as opposed to me copying and pasting it here.

Matt

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

12:56 PM, 16th March 2018, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 16/03/2018 - 07:37
Thanks for the reply Mark!

Please excuse my ignorance as I'm still a novice on the trust subject. Could you please elaborate as I don't seem to see anything specific to the deed of trust from the link/manual? I'd like to understand the benefits of deed of trust and its tax implications to decide.

Regarding your suggestion on tenants in common, I do wish to remain the legal owner though. Then I suppose paying rent into a joint account may not work for our tax planning purpose and I'll be stuck... Is there any other way to get around it?

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

13:05 PM, 16th March 2018, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Matt at 16/03/2018 - 12:56
Hi Matt

I’m on holiday this week so I don’t have immediate access to all of my manuals. In any event, this is getting quite technical and personal and not ideally suited to a forum discussion.

Please book a consultation with me via our main tax page if you would like to take this further. There is only so much free advice and work I am prepared to do as I’m sure you will apprecia. I’m happy to answer generic questions for free on the forum but for specialist guidance I must insist on a consultation, either with me or another specialist in regards to Landlord tax planning using trust law.

Matt

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

15:23 PM, 18th March 2018, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 16/03/2018 - 13:05
Thanks Mark! Sure, I appreciate that. I was just hoping to confirm that a deed of trust can work for me before taking this further...

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

Become a Member

If you login or become a member you can view this members profile, comments, posts and send them messages!

Sign Up

15:33 PM, 18th March 2018, About 7 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Matt at 18/03/2018 - 15:23
Hi Matt

With the benefit of a full fact find there may be better solutions for you I could suggest.

Leave Comments

In order to post comments you will need to Sign In or Sign Up for a FREE Membership

or

Don't have an account? Sign Up

Landlord Automated Assistant Read More