Damp issues in flat – problems with tenants?

Damp issues in flat – problems with tenants?

0:06 AM, 20th September 2023, About A year ago 20

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Hello, I have a two bedroomed ground floor flat. The current tenants have been there for four years now. Last year, they began to complain of excessive damp within the property. I had a damp survey done and was advised to have the air bricks repaired and renovated as they had collapsed within the cavity and were no longer effective.

The damp survey also suggested that it was ‘Environmental dampness’ and it is the activities of the tenants which is creating moisture vapour. There is a lounge/kitchen diner layout) and there is no window in the bathroom. I had the air bricks repaired and had additional air vents put in at various places to counter this, plus an extractor fan in the bathroom.

The tenants recently complained again that the moisture in the property is excessive and there is now excessive black spot mould in various rooms including the lounge which they keep wiping down to minimise the impact. The tenants have invested in de-humidifiers but they are having to empty them regularly and accept that they aren’t enough.

I have now had a second survey done which pretty much backs up the first with the conclusion being that it is ‘Environmental dampness’ caused by tenant use. There was never a damp issue with any of the previous tenants which backs up this conclusion. The recommendation now is that we install a “Positive Input Ventilation Unit’. I have spoken to two companies that have said that this is not the right solution and will not help. The tenant has also said that they don’t want anything installed which will increase their electricity bill which also makes me wonder if they are actually heating the property sufficiently.

The survey also recommended that I apply two coats of thermal paint to the external facing internal wall surfaces and ceilings which will increase the temperature of the internal wall surface to reduce condensation forming and thus preventing mould.

I had a company in today to assess the work needed and to provide a quote. They have come back and said that they cannot consider doing the work because the tenants are storing an enormous amount of things in the property making appropriate access impossible. They explained that the second bedroom has so much stored in it that they cannot access the room at all.

I have talked to the tenants about opening windows when drying clothes, etc. but they have said that they have invested in de-humidifiers, etc. and are reluctant to open the windows because it makes the property more vulnerable to burglars, etc. They claim that they keep the front door open when they are home.

The tenants are also refusing to let anyone into the property unless they are there, but they work shifts which makes it very complicated.

My question is, is it my responsibility to pay for the property to be cleared of their belongings before the work is completed or is it reasonable for me to ask the tenants to clear out their belongings so that I can get the work done?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

Pam


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Simon F

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11:28 AM, 20th September 2023, About A year ago

You've fixed the cavity bridging issue at your level, but there may be problems above. Damp in walls is carried by gravity until it hits the DPC at the bottom. If the outer leaf of the wall is saturated, the inner leaf can't breathe even if cavity is clear, so all 'environmental' moisture is trapped.
If there was a guttering issue that was fixed, say a year ago, the damp in the wall might have only just reached ground floor. Some brick types soak rain more than others, I sometimes use a silicone based spray treatment for walls (one that still allows the wall to breathe) facing the prevailing weather to reduce how wet the outer leaf gets. Once a property is really damp, the only real fix is to, after addressing the root causes, let it stand empty and well-ventilated through an entire summer.

W Josef

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11:45 AM, 20th September 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by LMitchell at 20/09/2023 - 09:43
Interested in PIVs dropping EPC ratings. Could you explain why a PIV would drop the EPC rating? What have your surveyors told you? Many thanks.

Accommod8

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12:05 PM, 20th September 2023, About A year ago

Anything such as a bed, wardrobe or other clutter touching or near external walls prevents air circulation, so it is out of order for the tenants to persist in doing this, assuming it is the case.
We have a few PIVs and they are successful, as they continuously push air through the property and are more effective than anything else in our experience, so I'm surprised to hear that a professional recommendation was NOT to install them. Ours also have a heater setting for extra cold spells, meaning really cold air is not introduced. The cost is a difficult one, obviously due to the general ban on tenant expenses- for a hard wired unit in this instance.
We are stating in a new AST that we will pay the tenant £60 at the commencement of the contract (which is in excess of the manufacturer's running cost estimate) in return for them agreeing to use the funds to cover that smallish element of the overall electricity bill. We would also explain this requirement to any new tenants when viewing.
Perhaps the reason for possible negative EPC rating for PIVs is the presence of colder air causing thermal inefficiency, but that is crazy, as you are investing in a remedy for the comfort and health of your tenants.

Bristol Landlord

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16:25 PM, 20th September 2023, About A year ago

I think you been a responsible landlord and have done all that you can to remedy the situation. It would appear that the cause of the problem are the tenants themselves, sorry Mr Gove.
I would immediately issue an S21 eviction notice whilst you still can. Get them out of there and then reassess any further works. The longer those tenants remain the more damage and stress and expense they will cause.
You can’t fix stupid.

Rebecca RAHMAN

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23:07 PM, 20th September 2023, About A year ago

Bathrooms especially use envirovent cylone, through them or buy 1 yrself. Works with the atmosphere so needs no tenant input. They're magic!

Paul

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0:08 AM, 21st September 2023, About A year ago

Rather than a PIV, have you considered HRV, Heat Recovery Ventilation? This recovers heat to warm the incoming air while removing damp air. I had one on my home for many years and was very happy with it. It also improved my EPC when I came to sell.

JohnsonD

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10:51 AM, 23rd September 2023, About A year ago

I would highly recommend installing Greenwood CV2 extractor fans in the kitchen and bathrooms as well as Passyfier vents in all other rooms you can fit them in.

Both products are absolute games changers when it comes to condensation and mould problems.

KD South East

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10:53 AM, 23rd September 2023, About A year ago

Are you keeping in good communication with your tenants? Have you or those who carried out the surveys pointed out to them exactly what is causing condensation and what they can do to remedy it. Eg tumble dryer, drying clothes, failing to heat or ventilate.
I'm surprised there wasn't already an extractor in the bathroom. Do they have an outside space to dry clothes in?

With the mould, I recently met a council/mould expert who said cutting a lemon in half, adding salt and rubbing it on the affected areas kills off the spores (I haven't tried it and have no idea if it works).

If the dehumidifier is collecting water from the walls then it's a different issue, but I would imagine that would have been picked up by the experts.
If there is water on the inside of the window panes, then condensation is the issue, and adequate heating and ventilation is needed.

Paul Baker

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12:09 PM, 23rd September 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by W Josef at 20/09/2023 - 11:45
This was as a result of my recent EPC. The assessor told me that they 'hammer the EPC' & gave me a low E rating!
I challenged him on it and after a week he revised it up to a D which is inline with my expectation.
The assessor referred to it as a 'mechanical ventilation unit'. After educating him more on a PIV and questioning whether this was the same as a 'mechanical ventilation unit' he then agreed they were different, and upgraded my EPC.
So, long answer, but it may not be true that PIV's reduce the EPC, it may have just been a case of my assessor getting it wrong or not understanding them.

W Josef

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12:30 PM, 23rd September 2023, About A year ago

Reply to the comment left by Paul Baker at 23/09/2023 - 12:09
Thank you that's helpful. The tenants in one of my properties is eligible for free external wall insulation under the ECO4 scheme but the property needs to be an E. The last time I had an EPC done it was a D but have since installed a PIV. So hoping the assessor sees it as a negative and pushes it down to an E.

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