Councillor Chris Devine (Conservative – Wiltshire) Named and Shamed

While I definitely agree that we should counter anti landlord arguments, I now see that going on the Salisbury Journal's forum and trying to argue the case of landlords (even with the considered and learned arguments that have been used) is actually COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.

Firstly, we will NOT change the minds of the anti BTL brigade - even if we had Mother Theresa on our side, and while it might be argued that we're not doing it for THEIR benefit but speaking to the reasonable majority of the site's visitors, we are still creating free publicity for this "gentleman".

If the article receives little or no publicity, it will be of passing interest to some, and then forgotten about. However, he is now acquiring an unpaid, unwitting but very effective publicity team - US. The more that site page is searched for or opened, the higher the Google rankings go, therefore the more people will see it, the higher the ranking. and so on.

He is now gaining publicity on a national level, so instead of just being some local tin pot Hitler, if this goes further he will acquire some celebrity as a Conservative party enfant terrible - with dreadful consequences for the PRS, as his ideas gain traction.

PLEASE the best thing we can do is stay off the site and social media about this. Action should be taken offline - by speaking to members of the Conservative party who are likely to see our viewpoint and take action behind the scenes.

Reply to the comment left by "Mandy Thomson" at "25/12/2015 - 11:22":

Hello Mandy,

Seasons Greetings!

The best way to deal with this moron is to question his beliefs and expand upon them.

You dont get long to make a good impression and its is quite easy to paint him out in front of his constituants as a bigoted and flawed business man that has become a councillor and feeds off achieving nothing over an extended period of time, except claiming his expenses.

How many years has he been a councillor?
Why in all that time has neither he or his party fixed his areas housing problems via Council Housing?

What does he think about Jewish landlords?

How many Private Landlords are in his town?

How many Privately rented houses are there and do the council have the stock to replace them?

Does he think that a gay person can become a Landlord?

Does he still favour a sex bar in his town?
Is this the Private Investment he supports?

Clause 24 is now the law and it is coming, does he support discrimination?

Reply to the comment left by "Gary Dully" at "25/12/2015 - 11:50":

Hi Gary - Seasons Greetings to you to.

I hear what you're saying, but unless there is definite evidence that this person might be less than wholesome (which I couldn't find - the only thing I found was that he toad - sorry, TOED! the cabinet line in voting for increased expenses) to discredit him and by extension his argument, it is best not to go there. There is also a danger in that approach of dragging yourself down to his level - tit for tat, he said that, she said that, etc.

As I said, the best action is to get sympathetic and influential party members to pursue this within the party - I'm sure most of us on this forum know at least a few such people.

It will also be interesting to see what his boss has to say about this, though this will most likely have to wait until after Xmas.

Reply to the comment left by "Mandy Thomson" at "25/12/2015 - 12:32":

His boss isn't pleased.

Reply to the comment left by "Ros ." at "25/12/2015 - 12:47":

At least that's something.

I thought this was a well-written comment from the newspaper:

'I understand that there is a lot of bad feeling towards private landlords. This councillor has expressed this himself in a very unpleasant way and revealed a lot about himself in the process. It casts doubt on his qualities as a political representative.

However, there is a significant need in this country for rented housing. There are many reasons, amongst them are:
* Transient individuals who are not yet ready to settle in one place
* Students
* People who do not have a good enough credit history to buy
* People who have not saved enough for a deposit
* People on benefits
* People who do not want the risk or responsibility of home ownership
* People who would like to buy but do not have the funds (yet?)

Given that there is (and will always be) a need for rented housing, if you are anti-landlord, who would you prefer to own the properties that are rented out?

* Local council? Good for some cases, but less good for up-market renters. Potentially low quality housing. And of course we sold off most of the council houses.
* Housing association? Same as above, non-profit organisations also about to be forced to sell off houses at a discount.
* Private landlord? There are many good ones and a few bad ones, but the good ones offer decent quality housing with good personal service, in return for a modest to good profit to make the risk and work worthwhile. Paying tax on the profits.
* Large corporate landlord? In it only for the profit with no personal involvement. Possibly owned by foreign conglomerates, and possibly paying very little in the way of UK taxes. '

Reply to the comment left by "Ros ." at "25/12/2015 - 16:28":

Really good post, Ros but don't let this individual ruin your Christmas and don't let his "fame" spread any more than it has already. He has got a lot of landlords upset and spoiled their Christmas - so far, this low life seems to be winning.

Reply to the comment left by "Mandy Thomson" at "25/12/2015 - 16:37":

Hi Mandy.
I don't see it that way. A lot of people will object to his moronic and offensive rant and the prejudice he has shown is now out in the open to be examined for the disgraceful thing it is.
He should be disciplined and/or thrown out of the party.
I think we just take different approaches to this - I prefer to engage and contest the arguments of the other side and not leave the floor open to the other members of the unthinking anti-landlord brigade who don't know what they're talking about and whose arguments are all based on hatred and envy.
And he hasn't spoiled my Christmas at all. I only engage with these people when I feel like it. He's like a little rabbit caught in the headlights. He's small fry.

Reply to the comment left by "Mandy Thomson" at "25/12/2015 - 11:22":

Hi Mandy

A good reason for posting on the SJ’s site is that journalists from national newspapers may read the misleading comments written by the anti-landlord brigade, and be taken in by them. Therefore it is important to set the record straight. And it will educate any neutrals who have not really thought about BTL but have seen a lot of landlord-bashing articles and TV programmes about rogue landlords.

Another very interesting comment from the journal:

'On first seeing this article my initial thoughts were that this was some politically-correct witchhunt, nitpicking the comments of Chris Devine, made when his guard was down. But when I looked up his full statement to confirm my suspicions, I turned out to be completely wrong. Devine’s full comment was nasty and really appalling:

“So Gareth, how many properties do you own? Your email is deeply flawed, do you seriously believe that the `buy to let` brigade give a fig for those they are exploiting with high rents and short tenancies.

Stop thinking about your own pocket and think about society, you lot are nothing, but, parasites and the sooner you are taxed out of existence the better.

Just because I am a Conservative does not mean that I do not have a social conscience, well done to George Osbourne. As for you. Try doing some public service and stop snivelling.

Chris Devine, Cllr”

It not being an apparent crime at the time, when I bought a house with my partner I decided to retain and rent out my old semi-detached as a pension-pot for retirement. I have a long-term tenant who is not yet looking to buy, who treats the house perfectly, and who I get along with very well. Our relationship is mutually beneficial, not feudal. Yet in Mr Devine’s eyes that automatically makes me “nothing” and a parasite. The fact is my local council is harbouring an individual, who appears from the above quote, to observe and treat people like myself with malice.

The Council needs to understand how utterly threatened and violated these comments make other people living in South Wiltshire feel. Like most people, I do not appreciate being menaced by these kinds of idiotic, malicious objectives when I have not done a thing wrong, especially when it is coming from a member of the Council, a person who is supposed to be a role model. This is completely unacceptable and something needs to be done about it.

On a further note, it was after seeing the full quotation and lingering on the above-mentioned website Property118 afterwards, that I downloaded its tax-adjustment spreadsheet yesterday. Doing so exacerbated my sudden anger toward Mr Devine's comments, but at least left me aware of my true financial situation. It turns out that this talk of taxing people out of existence is not just one man’s sick fantasy. He appears to have been bragging about actual Conservative policy!

For the house I am letting, the mortgage is £743.77 per month. My tenant pays a £750 per month rent. After the monthly cost of home insurance I have actually been making a very small loss, but until now this hadn’t really bothered me. I’d heard of tax changes on the horizon but because none of the money I actually live-on comes from renting, I’d always assumed that I’d have nothing to worry about. But from the spreadsheet I downloaded, I discovered that after the tax change I’d be paying an extra £2803.20 in income tax per year. £2803.20! I am still shell-shocked!

This is nearly three grand that I do not have, calculated from money that I’ve paid out to the bank and which they have already paid tax on themselves. To afford this and make the same loss I am now, I need to begin increasing my tenant’s rent to an eventual £983.60 per month. That’s £750 to £983.30 per month. It’s disgraceful. If this was what the e-mail Chris Devine responded to was about, I am fully on the side of the person who sent it. People need to be told about this, particularly members of the Tory party. Instead of insulting people these councillors should be ashamed about what is happening in their name!

Perhaps Chris Devine thinks my tenant is a parasite too. By saying that he cannot wait for landlords to be taxed out of existence, it is clearly himself that “doesn’t give a fig” for the people living in these properties. That is after-all what he is gloating about, taxing rentals into the ground and driving people out of their homes. This man talks about public service, while laughing vindictively at other people and doing the public a complete disservice from that. Wiltshire Council need to wake up to the bigger picture, see that this individual menace is part of a wider problem, and stand up on behalf of its local people. The wider party meanwhile should hang their heads in shame, reverse this outrageous stealth tax and apologise for the stupidity that led to it.

And as for Chris Devine (to borrow his own turn of phrase), people with social consciences don’t gloat at others being taxed out of existence or send abuse to those saying things that they don’t agree with. So I'd say he's the last person who should be lecturing others in matters of their own integrity and public service.'