9:11 AM, 24th December 2015, About 9 years ago 114
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Ever since the Summer Budget we have been encouraging Property118 members to actively lobby their local elected officials to explain the real life consequences of Clause 24 of The 2015 Finance Bill (Restrictions on Finance Cost Relief For Individual Landlords).
The vast majority of responses have been gratitude for highlighting the consequences of clause 24 and the increased homelessness issues it is likely to create. Slowly but surely we are amassing a growing level of public sector support, and concern in terms of how the consequences of a shrinking or stagnating private rented sector will affect local economies and homelessness as of 2017 when the new legislation begins to get phased in.
Below is the shocking response received from Councillor Chris Devine (Conservative – Wiltshire) to a very polite, very well worded report sent to him by one of our Property118 campaign team members.
Chris Devine Cllr.
“So Gareth, how many properties do you own? Your email is deeply flawed, do you seriously believe that the `buy to let` brigade give a fig for those they are exploiting with high rents and short tenancies.
Stop thinking about your own pocket and think about society, you lot are nothing, but, parasites and the sooner you are taxed out of existence the better.
Just because I am a Conservative does not mean that I do not have a social conscience, well done to George Osbourne. As for you. Try doing some public service and stop snivelling.
Chris Devine, Cllr”
Needless to say, we were shocked!
We asked Cllr James Fraser (Conservative – Stevenage), who has been incredibly supportive of our campaigning, what could be done.
Cllr Fraser immediately wrote the following email to Cllr Chris Devine …
“Dear Cllr Devine,
I refer to your recent email to Gareth Wilson, a friend of mine who, like me, is somewhat surprised by the level of rudeness and ignorance shown in your response (not to mention the lack of grammatical skill nor the simple ability to spell Osborne).
Gareth had correctly tried to bring to your attention the impossible position small investors and businesses were being put in by some government policy that, directly or indirectly, several million people will be affected by over the next four years.
Perhaps not surprisingly, you have proven how little an understanding you have of the situation. Has it not occurred to you that many of your constituents, even people who voted for you, are investors in homes? Do you feel that the large percentage of Conservative MPs who rent property are ‘parasites’? Or is Wiltshire unique among English counties in that they have an unending supply of council stock to offer to the tenants you would so willingly displace from their privately-rented homes?
Incredibly, you feel that insulting people who contribute vast sums of money and endless hours of time to alleviating the pressure on council stock is you having a conscience and doing something useful for society. What a strange way to view yourself.
You don’t offer any explanation for why Gareth’s email is ‘deeply flawed’, probably because it isn’t. The information contained within it is referenceable from the highest and best researched of sources and luckily has been received with a lot more intelligence by other Conservative councillors nationwide.
Your deeply offensive descriptions and frankly ill-informed opinions are an embarrassment to those of us who are both Conservatives and who work in housing as a profession. They fall well short of standards expected of public officials. To this end I have reported your email to your group leader, the council Chief Exec and your local press, who ought to know how their elected representatives address members of the public expressing their genuine concerns.
Sincerely
Cllr James Fraser
Deputy Leader of the Conservatives
Stevenage Borough Council”
Cllr Fraser then followed this up by making the following formal complaint to Cllr Devine’s boss ….
“Dear Cllr Britton,
I feel I must bring to your attention the reply below received from Cllr Devine after an email from one Gareth Wilson outlining some consequences of the government’s Clause 24.
Gareth Wilson had written a well-researched and intelligent piece to bring to your attention a ruinous policy that will affect millions of people nationwide and no doubt a good many of your constituents.
This reply falls well short of the standards required of a public official. To call the writer – a friend of mine – a ‘parasite’ who Devine wants ‘taxed out of existence’ and who should ‘stop snivelling’ is deeply offensive and worthy of reporting to your local press.
Devine clearly has no knowledge of the sector, nor its contribution to relieving pressure on council housing stock, nor the kind of care and commitment it takes to be a private landlord, of which I too am such a worthless parasite who should clearly do more for society.
Sincerely
Cllr James Fraser
Deputy Leader, Conservatives
Stevenage Borough Council”
Councillor Chris Devine (Conservative – Wiltshire) Named and Shamed https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe @wiltshiretimes pic.twitter.com/OXtQ4ZsFOt
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
This article shows the level of ignorance #Landlords are up against https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe Cllr named & shamed
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
#Landlord basher gets his comeuppance https://t.co/jBAQQ7xEWe
— Mark Alexander (@iAmALandlord) December 24, 2015
Mandy Thomson
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Sign Up16:50 PM, 4th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Mandy Thomson" at "24/12/2015 - 12:35":
I had the email today from the Conservative party confirming cancellation of my membership.
Chris Byways
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Sign Up17:51 PM, 4th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Barry Fitzpatrick" at "04/01/2016 - 14:16":
The reason they ask the complainant to ident the section under which they complaint, is so they do not get further complaints claiming some other section they had overlooked.
This is reasonable. But they will look at his actions, and make their own minds up if anything has been done wrong according to the strict code of conduct.
Baroness Scott may wish it swept under the carpet, to avoid publicity!!!, but if the mud might stick, will likely disassociate herself/party quickly, as he is a liability.
However, if other party leaders think they can get one over another member from a different party, might want to make mischief.
The comments in the Journal of most interest to them, for causing disrepute of council, is those saying I Agee with his sentiments but he was wrong to say it that way.
Love Roger's surname, most fitting. Wiltshire!
Barry Fitzpatrick
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Sign Up17:58 PM, 4th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Politicians are the same the world over happy to see some one bury themsleves but don't want to be seen holding the knife.
I imagine he'll get a rap across the knuckles and told not to do it again. And the whole thing then swept under the carpet. Unless Devine's position in the eyes of the electorate becomes untenable (unlikely)
Chris Byways
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Sign Up19:57 PM, 4th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Had a charming email from Conservative HQ:-
(I suspect the duplication suggests a rather stock reply)
"Dear Chris
I am writing on behalf of the Chairman’s Office. It is good of you to get in touch and make us aware of your thoughts on this.
It is good of you to get in touch and make us aware of this. As I’m sure you will appreciate, it would not be appropriate for the Party Chairman to intervene in the dealings of locally and democratically elected officials, nevertheless I will be sure to pass on your feedback to the Chairman and our local government team.
Of course, all councillors are expected to adhere to the councillors’ code of conduct as set out by each individual council. If you feel that a councillor has breached this code of conduct, you should refer the matter to your local council standards committee. Details of this, as well as the code of conduct, can be found on the relevant council’s website.
I wish you the best of luck in receiving a response from the leader of your council, and hope it is a satisfactory answer.
Thank you, once again, for taking the time and trouble to get in touch.
Yours sincerely,
Shannon Holland-Houghton
Office of the Party Chairman
Conservative Campaign Headquarters"
I am replying.
Monty Bodkin
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Sign Up21:08 PM, 4th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Barry Fitzpatrick" at "04/01/2016 - 17:58":
"Unless Devine’s position in the eyes of the electorate becomes untenable (unlikely)"
Barry,
Have a laugh at the number of electoral votes for Winterslow;
http://wiltshireconservatives.com/media/files/FULL%20RESULT.pdf
For more chuckles, the HPC mob are sending him sycophantic messages of support.
Wonder if they've seen this;
http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/2183044.council_forced_to_concede_over_special_meeting/
Meanwhile opponents of the proposal to build 2,500 homes on the edge of Winterslow are planning a rally in the Market Square on Saturday, April 19.
Organised by councillor Chris Devine, it will start at 11am.
The Councillor's reaction to the HPC letters of support may have been this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyEThSM4JnI
TheMaluka
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Sign Up11:01 AM, 5th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Chris Byways" at "04/01/2016 - 19:57":
This is a standard letter which does not even have the good sense to mention the matter to which it relates, just using phrases such as ". . . . make us aware of your thoughts on this". I have had many such letters from politicians, they are a waste of paper and ink.
Barry Fitzpatrick
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Sign Up17:04 PM, 6th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Just received this back from Baroness Scott - intersting as I never mentioned the Finance Bill or Clause 24 in my email complaint it was purely about his language and his contravention of the Council Code of Ethics.
Dear Mr Fitzpatrick
Thank you for your recent email regarding Cllr Devine’s comments on the Finance Bill. I have had a number of emails both against and in support of Cllr Devine’s views, but to clarify: those are his personal views, and the Bill in question is not something that has or would be discussed by Wiltshire Council’s Conservative administration as it is a central government bill and we have not been asked to make any comment. I would suggest therefore that any of your comments about the Bill or any of its clauses should be submitted to your local MP.
If you wish to raise an objection regarding Cllr Devine’s conduct, this can be done via Wiltshire Council’s Code of Conduct process, details of which can be found here: http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/council/complaints/membercomplaints.htm
If you are unable to access the link above, please do get in touch.
Kind regards
Jane
Baroness Scott of Bybrook, O.B.E.
Leader
Wiltshire Council
Mandy Thomson
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Sign Up17:17 PM, 6th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "Barry Fitzpatrick" at "06/01/2016 - 17:04":
It is interesting that she’s sent you a letter about the Finance Bill, when you didn’t raise the issue with her. I’m also disappointed, but not surprised, that she is taking no responsibility for the uncalled for rudeness of one of her councillors.
Barry Fitzpatrick
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Sign Up17:26 PM, 6th January 2016, About 9 years ago
@Mandy
I will write back saying that I don't care about Cllr Devines views particulary as he didn't really air them, but on his insulting attitude/rudeness indirectly calling me (and all other private Landlords) "parasites" this language is unbefitting that of someone in public office.
Chris Byways
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Sign Up17:33 PM, 6th January 2016, About 9 years ago
Reply to the comment left by "David Price" at "05/01/2016 - 11:01":
Standard letter? Surely not, they wouldn't do that would they?
Here's my highly personalised letter from Jane, and my reply, in reverse order :-
Dear Baroness Scott,
Thank you for the reply, however it is not his views I am upset about, despite being factually wrong, nor that the proposal is of course DOUBLE TAXATION that is being introduced on the mortgage (Clause 24) used to provide the essential housing so desperately needed, nor the fact that this is providing a service the Council can not provide, where the choice for tenants will be curtailed, and the rents substantially forced up to tenants, (n.b. when Crude price rose, or tax increased, petrol prices followed up!) nor the fact that he is so hypocritical in previously objecting to a housing development, but the derogatory insulting language he used.
What I would ask you to reflect on, is whether you condone, and feel his language acceptable, firstly by Wiltshire County Council, and secondly by a member of the Conservative group? Do you?
Regards,
Chris
On 6 Jan 2016, at 16:48, Scott, Jane wrote:
Thank you for your recent email regarding Cllr Devine’s comments on the Finance Bill. I have had a number of emails both against and in support of Cllr Devine’s views, but to clarify: those are his personal views, and the Bill in question is not something that has or would be discussed by Wiltshire Council’s Conservative administration as it is a central government bill and we have not been asked to make any comment. I would suggest therefore that any of your comments about the Bill or any of its clauses should be submitted to your local MP.
If you wish to raise an objection regarding Cllr Devine’s conduct, this can be done via Wiltshire Council’s Code of Conduct process, details of which can be found here: http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/council/complaints/membercomplaints.htm
If you are unable to access the link above, please do get in touch.
Kind regards
Jane
Baroness Scott of Bybrook, O.B.E.
Leader
Wiltshire Council
01225 713111
http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk
_____________________________________________
Follow Wiltshire Council
Sent: 25 December 2015 21:19
To: Scott, Jane
Cc: Strategy, Housing ; Investigations ; Press Team ; Democratic and Member Services
Subject: Re CLLR DEVINE
Cllr Baroness Scott of Bybrook O.B.E
Conservatives
Leader,
Wiltshire County Council
Dear Baroness Scott,
I am appalled and astounded by the letter written by CLLR CHRIS DEVINE.
This is rude arrogant and misplaced, and from his later feeble "justification" he seems totally unrepentant.
http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/14167275.Landlords_are__parasites___says_Tory_councillor/
It appears to be totally in contradiction to your Council's this described on your own web site, see some quotes below, where you recognise the importance of the private rental sector. Will you please advise what action is to be taken against this person.
"There is a high demand for affordable homes in Wiltshire, and across the UK in general. There were over 20,500 households registered for re-housing within Wiltshire alone with the numbers growing daily. Demand will always outweigh supply so the Council needed to ensure that those with the greatest need were prioritised for re-housing.
Wiltshire Council recognises the importance of the private rented sector in providing housing for its residents.
In Wiltshire there are in excess of 1700 properties that have been empty for more than 6 months. With demand for housing continuing to increase Wiltshire Council recognises the importance of making best use of existing homes. Returning empty homes to use has the following advantages;
maintain the quality of the area and neighbouring property values,
reduce the pressure to build on Greenfield sites to accommodate the extra homes that are needed to meet housing need,
increase the housing options of those looking for a home in Wiltshire through additional availability,
reduce the number of crime hotspots in the area,
reduce anti-social behaviour