Council Enforcement – YELLING WHAT AN EARTH I WAS PLAYING AT?

Hi Simon,

I would contact Landlord Licensing and Defence asap >> https://landlordsdefence.co.uk/contact

To make any changes to an HMO license at all you need to ask the council - any changes. You changed the layout without asking and thats what has got you into hot water. Nothing you can do, you will have to submit a new application, and maybe, just maybe get a sympathetic ear, otherwise, you will have to pay another fee. He does make valid points however, a kitchen by the front door if this is the only access point is a no no - fire risk

Morning Simon,

I’m really to sorry to say that I think that apart from your suspicious being correct that your tenant will be looking for a rent repayment order, I also think that the council is looking to fine you. If they are successful, I suspect it could be many thousands. Please be advised that the councils keep the fines that they impose on you and so they are very motivated for a successful outcome.

For this reason I would take this very seriously and I concur with the advice given by Neil Patterson to contact the Landlord Licensing and Defence. Alternatively or perhaps additionally, try and find a local solicitor who is expert in this particular area.

Additionally, please read your license very carefully in order to ascertain on what grounds the council are likely to prosecute. Forewarned is forearmed. You may find some useful relevant information in the LACORS booklet which is available from the Internet free of charge.

Lastly, please be aware that if and when when they invite you in for ”A friendly chat“ it is likely to be an on the record interview. The purpose of which will be to extract information from you to be used against you for prosecution. As far as I know, it is not an arrestable offence and so you are under no obligation to attend. However, with regard to attending, somebody more experienced than me should be able to advise you whether refusing an interview is wise or not.

Good luck, Peter

Thanks Neil

Oddly we had an enquiry from a different landlord with exactly the same scenario.

Our recommendation would be that

1. The landlord had indeed broken the law by failing to comply with a licence condition

2. The property appears to be, now, a s257 converted building and possibly not a s254 ‘Normal HMO’. Only a detailed inspection would confirm which it is. Also which he needs it to be in order to minimise prosecution /fines is a matter he needs expert advice on

3. If it’s now a s257 and not s254 it’s likely to be in breach of planning as well as licensing

4. Whichever type of HMO it is, it falls under HMO Management Regulations and the council will be intending to apply civil penalties as close to £30,000 as they possibly can

5. That the landlord should not talk to the council as they are now in full enforcement mode and intent on raising massive civil penalty fines. Their only interest in talking to him will be to obtain evidence and self-incrimination.

6. He should further not talk to the tenant who intends to get a years rent back. Again he should use professional representation.

7. Landlords Defence should attend the property before the council and conduct a full HHSRS survey so that the landlords has fully documented evidence for his defence

8. Landlords Defence and not the landlord should meet the council on site to avoid the probability of self incrimination and to ensure that the council stick to Proper process and procedure

This of course comes at a cost and although tiny in relation to massive potential costs up to £40,000-60,000 such as

* fine for breaching licence
* fine for breaching Regulation 4
* Rent Repayment Order

the landlord who decided that he was, like so many landlords, not prepared to pay for professional help and would instead “wait and see what the council says” by which tine of course he will not have and contemporaneous evidence or advice with which to defend.

Landlords seem to have no comprehension of the might of the council, their resources and the depth of their pockets when they decide to “get” a landlord.

The landlord posting here seems to think that free advice on this portal and maybe on other social media is what he needs.

Sadly as so many landlords find, free advice is the most expensive advice in the end. Both financially and in the destruction by the council of their mental health.

When you meet the enforcement officer record everything overtly on your smart phone, preferably video, and separately covertly using a second device, just in case the officer objects to overt recording. If he shouts lower your voice until it becomes a whisper, the more he shouts the softer your speech.

Ask, very politely, to see his official identification and take a photograph, also ask for his business card and be prepared to give him yours.

Take an independent non emotionally involved witness.

Insist that the officer puts all his concerns and a resume of the meeting in writing.

As Des says:
1. If the L has created a S257, then mandatory HMOL no longer applies , BUT the L has made changes to an already licensed S254 HMO so has breached the Licence
2. The S257 wont need Mandatory HMOL licensing - so an application to revoke the HMOL should be made after taking advice- and subject to 3 below, as the planning department may seek reinstatement
3. Whether the change from a S254 HMO to a S257 HMO needs planning is a moot point - in some cases yes, in some cases no- and we have leading Counsels opinion on this. If the change in use is material, then PP would be needed - so there may be planning issues now as well
4. Check whether S257s are covered by Additional HMO Licensing in your area
Please get advice from Des and Phil at LLDL as they have a huge amount of current experience of these matters, and access to the most experienced and leading counsel and so on if needed

Reply to the comment left by Peter at 09/08/2021 - 09:43
Id refuse any interview - if they want to take enforcement action, invite them to do so

I also strongly recommend you follow Neil Patterson's advice.

Also, please keep this thread updated as to how this all pans out.

Hi Simon,
I would contact Landlord Licensing and Defence asap >> https://landlordsdefence.co.uk/contact