Charity demands swift reforms for outdated EPC system

Reply to the comment left by EPC Killjoy at 09/02/2024 - 10:43
I think most of us expect too much from our politicians. What I hope from them is "...don't screw things up so badly that people and small businesses can't fix real world problems." Because most problems are fixed not by governments...they are fixed by individual people and small businesses.

So we could install ground source heat pumps. But the information available to us is unreliable and the numbers don't stack up because either the grants or the tax breaks aren't available. At present we are actually punished by the tax system for housing people.

And we could buy cheap photovoltaics from China and put them on our houses. But what's the performance of these panels? What's the longevity? Are they going to delaminate in ten years so that creates another disposal problem like the disposal problem we have with plastics?

Reply to the comment left by Beaver at 09/02/2024 - 10:30The article is about people being scammed by no win no fee lawyers and dodgy surveyors who made false allegations about the effects of cavity wall insulation. Nothing to do with the effectiveness or suitability of cwi.

Reply to the comment left by Beaver at 09/02/2024 - 11:03
I relate to your perception “At present we are actually punished by the tax system for housing people.”
With extra millions coming to this country needing to be housed, government wants “somebody” to increase housing standards. EPC’s requiring extra insulation are negating the laws already out there in part L of the Building Regulations. Making them retroactive is universally agreed as bad law making - if indeed it is legal at all to prevent alterations to an existing property internally. There are some parts of society who would welcome an opportunity to criticise your curtains ! We pay taxes and vote to get good government. WHY ?

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 09/02/2024 - 11:54
Against my advice my sister had Cavity Wall Insulation and within a year she thought it was actually colder in rooms than previously. In principle the architectural profession always regarded CWI as idiotic because it replaced air with something which increased the conduction of heat out of the building. The bigger danger is from conducting moisture to the inside because as it evaporates out, the evaporative cooling acts like a fridge. U values are about conduction but dense materials resist the climate with more thermal resistance. Without contact between the two leaves of a cavity wall the conduction of a 50mm air gap is about as low as you can get without a vacuum. Glueing the two leaves together with foam might might make sense if the wall ties have failed.

Reply to the comment left by Beaver at 09/02/2024 - 11:03Regarding the cost of ground source heat pumps: "Typical costs are around £28,000 if your ground loop is buried in trenches, and could be around £57,000 if you need to dig a borehole" according to https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/ground-source-heat-pumps/
I don't see how they would ever be cost effective for investment properties or for retro-fitting in general, possibly suitable for new build or existing rural properties with plenty of ground adjacent to the house owned by a farmer who can dig his own trenches.

Reply to the comment left by EPC Killjoy at 09/02/2024 - 12:36
I understand you to be saying that loft insulation does not help to retain heat within the building and that this is proved by the fact that the loft space is colder than the rooms beneath. If you think that makes sense we are on different wave lengths.

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 09/02/2024 - 13:01
Just to remind you ..."Unheated lofts with fluffy insulation just get cold quickly."

Of course they do."

Reply to the comment left by EPC Killjoy at 09/02/2024 - 13:57I have been referring to the effect of the insulation which separates the building up to eaves level from the loft i.e what is commonly called loft insulation. If you are talking about something else perhaps you could make it clear and stop trying to bamboozle everyone with technical language that few of us will understand.

Reply to the comment left by Seething Landlord at 09/02/2024 - 12:19
The costs that I have looked at are about £5-6K for a borehole but you might need to have 2-3 boreholes. On top of that you've got the system itself at £3k+ and in addition you've got extra work in the property both in heat distribution and making good. But the costs of installing a new gas combi boiler would be around £3K or under. So realistically as you have already said you aren't going to do it.

If somebody wanted you to do it then they'd adjust the tax system to make it worth your while to do it, or at least less prohibitive. As things presently stand you are only penalised and so are the tenants because the tenants will either pay higher energy bills, or they will have to pay higher rents to fund the improvements.

Reply to the comment left by EPC Killjoy at 09/02/2024 - 13:57Are you suggesting that insulation doesn't actually insulate ?