Can’t trace suspected leak from flat above

1/I believe this to be one of the defined hazards under HHSRS. Hence get local authority environmental health involved. Could come under either hazard 1[damp and mould growth] or hazard 17[Personal hygiene, sanitation, and drainage].
2/It is possible that the shower has not been installed properly. It could be that there is insufficient or no mastic between wall and shower base. If this is the case, then the shower will need to be reinstalled by someone who is a professional. In connection with this, the floor under the base may not be level or move under the weight of the person showering.
3/The wall behind the tiles forming part of the enclosure needs to be lined with something if the tiles form part of a shower enclosure. You can find out more about
what to line it with if you visit a tile shop[eg Topps tiles] and have a chat with them. The lining can come either as a roll of film or a paste.
4/I have known situations where the waste pipe under the base has not been connected properly. This can obviously lead to escape of waste water.

Thank you very much for all your comments and suggestions. I have been travelling so apologies for not responding sooner.

The insurers have decided they are not getting involved, but with the silly excess they wanted, that is not really an issue.

I have hired a builder to remove a portion of the ceiling directly beneath the shower of the flat above. There are 3 flats in the building, of which mine is in the middle. The initial probe by the builders found that the floors have no concrete divide and that we should be able to see all the pipe work once we have removed the plaster. All builders were sure the water is coming from a loose shower drainage pipe.

It would be easier to tackle from the flat above, but the owner says he has hired builders himself who have found nothing.

The owner of the flat above has been a very difficult person to deal with and at times I have had cause to seriously doubt their sanity. They continue to insist this is my problem to deal with and that the water may not be coming from their flat at all. Given that they are the only flat above me, it is a real mystery as to where they think the water is coming from, having ruled out rain etc?

In any case, I intend to just shell out myself and remove the need to deal with such a problematic person.

I hope to start this week and will let you know what the outcome is.

Many thanks again for your excellent advice and support.

Reply to the comment left by "George Thompson" at "24/09/2014 - 16:07":

Good luck George. Don't forget to take plenty of photographs of the cause.

Reply to the comment left by "Adrian Jones" at "24/09/2014 - 17:03":

Thank you Adrian, Sorry I forgot to answer your original question regarding the insurance.

The insurer had us over a barrel at renewal last year and took full advantage. The broker was next to useless and more or less had an "it is, what it is" mentality. Hoping to change insurers and broker this year.

The insurer was the only company willing to quote, as we had an active claim at the time. Something I am going to avoid this year. They were also very heavy handed regarding the claim history, as it seems the ground floor shop, we all live above had a massive water related claim a year ago as well, though in the end they ended up paying their own claim. The house in an old converted Victorian place, so lots of things to go wrong due mainly to its age.

The insurer hiked our premium from £800 to £2,000 and raised the excess for water related claims from £350 to £2,500!

That is why this year we are not claiming for this leak and I am fixing it myself, at my own cost.

I will of course be taking lots of photos of the leak, but think even with this, the owner of the flat above will continue to deny liability. He is that kind of person. Lives on a different planet to normal decent folk.

The builder should be in this week, so I will update you all on what happened.

Many thanks

George

Thank you all for your kind answers last year. Sorry for not replying, but I wanted to wait and see if anything positive would happen, which would allow me to comment and answer questions.

Sadly nothing positive did happen. The insurer could not find the leak and put it down to a leaky shower curtain and a one off occurrence. I decided not to repair the ceiling as I was sure it would leak again.

We had a repeat leak again in January of this year (2015), which were 3 leaks in quick succession, all around the time the owner of flat above was showering, though he claimed he wasn't. (Nightmare neighbour, don't get me started).

I put a new claim in, through a new insurer, who has thankfully reduced the excess from GBP 2,500. The insurer paid for a trace and access above, though again I paid the excess of GBP 250, out of my own pocket, because guy above still adamant it is not his problem.

This new trace and access had limited access to the flat, as the owner was very cagey and refused to give full access. The plumber was not allowed to look under the bath tub and concluded again, that it was the shower curtain of the property. I disagreed with this and was told to get a second opinion, but if the cause was deemed the same, I would have to pay.

Meanwhile the owner of the leaky flat took the leak detection agency to court, for supposed damage caused to his property during the leak detection work. The agency deny any wrong doing. That is ongoing.

Due to lack of cooperation from guy above, I paid for a builder to come round and open my ceiling. He found nothing and claimed that it must be the shower curtain or the bath seal, but as they guy above does not give access, difficult to be sure.

I don't really know what more I can do. I have decided to try and install a wide, deep plastic drain pan, between my ceiling and the floor above, there is a false ceiling, which gives me some wriggle room for this. I plan to connect a pipe to the drain pan and then allow further leaks to drain outside, via a pipe drilled through the outer wall.

Not sure if this is doable, but to be honest, aside from suing the whacko above, there is not much else I can do to stop this leak.

If anyone knows a builder willing to do this and can pass me their details, much obliged. We are in North West London, on the Edgware Road.

Thanks for any help or advice you can provide in this very difficult situation.

Reply to the comment left by "George Thompson" at "14/05/2015 - 18:57":

Hi George

Have a read of this article published yesterday >>> http://www.property118.com/wasnt-damp/74590/

Could be just what you need.
.

Reply to the comment left by "Mark Alexander" at "14/05/2015 - 21:27":

Thank you very much Mark. I have sent the author of the article a message. I think the real issue is getting the owner of the flat above to accept his responsibility to repair and stop this leak. Lets see what he does, once I send him the latest builders' report.

However, I don't think getting anew shower curtain is really going to stop this leak. Prepared to eat my hat if it does! 😉

As an update to this case. I had a builder open my ceiling and he concluded the same as the insurer's engineer, who inspected the upstairs property, earlier this year. The leak is coming from the neighbours' shower screen. There is no leaky pipe, no faulty shower drain. The leak that has affected us for the passed 4 years, has come from the carelessness of the upstairs neighbour. Not that he will ever admit to it. I am going to ask him, as politely as possible, to make good his faulty shower screen and hope the insurer will pay for the damage to my ceiling.

Might be worth asking a solicitor to send a letter confirming that you know where the leak is coming from, the damages/repairs will be running into thousands of pounds and you will take court action to recover your losses if it is not put right immediately.
This may prompt him to actually fix it sooner rather than later!

Or, ask for his insurer's details and claim directly from them. That will make the insurance company deal with him to put it right.

Thanks Yvonne.

Believe you me, I have certainly day dreamed about taking this person to court, over this whole incident. The fact he has never apologised, caused me to pay out about £1,500 to date for repairs and insurance excesses, which he should have been paying, has certainly irked me.

Especially now that it appears to have been his fault the whole time and nothing to do with leaky pipes or water coming from the outside. He has even lied that he is not using the shower at the time of the leaks, something that we have now proved is impossible.

Anyway, I want to sell the property and move on, so I think I will take the high road, forgive and forget and just patch up my ceiling, which I hope the insurer (we share as we all are freeholders of the building) will cover the cost of.

It's not worth having legal action on the go, when trying to sell a property I think. And any short term losses will be recouped if I can get a good price for the property. Also I don't have that much spare cash at the moment and I imagine lawyers are expensive.

I won't start repairs though, until he assures me he has fixed his leaking bathroom and I have told the insurer to please have a word with him, about this.

Fingers crossed we can put this whole thing behind us, for good.