“Can’t Pay, we’ll take it away.” Ch 5 last night

Ouch IO - that feels like a reprimand and I apologise if I did not express myself very well.

What is really ridiculous is that there is no system in place for people to be re-housed if they genuinely cannot afford to live in the PRS and that the standard advice is for them to hang on to the bitter end, however stressful, so that they can qualify for housing by their local council. It is ridiculous that there is a savage lack of affordable housing available in the first place; that council houses were sold off and since then insufficient houses have been built; that rents and prices are rising at an astronomical rate, squeezing more and more people out of the market, which just adds to the problem. It is ridiculous that people have few places to live where they can expect long-term security of tenure.

However, when a tenant's bins are full of empty champagne bottles, he has just bought a Porsche and pays nothing from the day he moves in, (genuine case) then it is somewhat galling to be faced with a drawn-out procedure, costing even more money and causing even more stress, that may take as long as a piece of string, rather than a given time after which it should be simple and free. There are professional tenants out there who live practically rent-free because the system is so unwieldy. It is also ridiculous that if you can afford it you can use the HCEO to shorten this piece of string.

If someone pays no rent, or if notice is correctly served, then they will be evicted eventually; the question is simply how long. They can leave when requested after two months, or they can delay it for another x months, be evicted by Bailiffs or this HCEO procedure, but the end result is the same and the latter probably far more stressful. I appreciate that it can be devastating for the tenants, but it can be for landlords too: when there are large arrears and they cannot pay a mortgage, some can be in danger of losing their own homes.

Personally, I don't know any landlords (saints or not) who want to evict good tenants.

@ Gilly

Oh dear no pain intended and certainly no reprimand as I'm no Saint myself (or at my age much of a Sinner either!!).

I now see it comes across that way my apologies. I liked your post on Mark's Surrender Agreement too much to fall out with you so soon after!!!

Forgiveness sought

Reply to the comment left by "Industry Observer " at "28/09/2014 - 17:59":

Oh how nice of you. Absolutely. Resolved. Friends of course. Keep up your comments and I'll try to be more precise!

Industry Observer....you are getting soft in your old age..if it was me you would have me hung drawn and quartered 🙂

Reply to the comment left by "Gary Nock" at "28/09/2014 - 19:07":

Ha Gary - do you think so? I must have escaped lightly then 🙂

I've just discovered we are fellow Welsh people so maybe that's it - and as I was so mortified I did make quite a comprehensive reply, which I hope explained my view better.

Gilly you did explain yourself very well. And as a fellow landlord and agent I share your frustrations with the current state of affairs. IO is a proponent of telling us how it is. And without making his head swell too much he does add a lot of balance to 118 and knowledge as well from what I have personally gained.

Reply to the comment left by "Gary Nock" at "28/09/2014 - 19:57":

Well thank you Gary. Like many, I am so fed up of bad press, when we are already such an over-regulated country. It doesn't seem to improve things much. It's going to get worse for us Welsh shortly and the powers-that-be just don't listen. They consult ad nauseam then completely ignore the results.

I was trying not to sound too reverential, but some people have awesome knowledge (yes IO you are one of them) - it's great that they spend their time passing it on to us mere mortals 🙂 Problem is, the more I learn the more scary it is.

No peace hasn't broken out Gary but praise where praise is due and likewise apologies for unintentional offence or what seems like criticism.

The point Gilly makes about Landlords not evicting good tenants is well made, but equally only estate agents ever disliked (hated) HIPS. I never, ever heard of a single buyer who didn't support them.

Likewise I have never heard of a single tenant who thought they had too many rights when it came to eviction, or a single landlord who thinks the opposite!!

Thank you for your kind words, and Gilly's. I don't mind a bit of pro bono work and always post with best intentions even if not always right!!

Next time I get the situation where a council or CAB advises the tenant to illegally stay beyond the Section 21 date I'm just going to tell them I'm transferring it to the High court at the earliest opportunity for a prompt no notice eviction. And I'll tell them to watch Cant Pay we'll take it away. I'll maybe copy and scan the form to transfer to High Court and send it to them.

Surely at this point the CAB / Councils advice to the tenant must change. There must be an obligation on these people to act professionally so surely they must warn them that there is a real risk that bailiffs might put tenants out on the street with no notice at any point.

Presumably if the judge knows that a planned HCEO enforcement has been made clear right from the outset and the implications of no notice evictions explained to tenants and advisors there can't be any defence to the tenant being unprepared so he would be more likely to agree to transfer it.

We just need to get away from this default position of councils advising tenants to 'ignore the s21 date, play the system and screw your Landlord and you'll stay there for another few months and probably walk into a nice council house at the end of all this'.

Steve

Afraid not the CA etc advice is 100% correct even if inconvenient and annoying to Landlords. The Protection From Eviction Act 1977 is very clear on how you "lawfully" exclude a tenant.

You need a Court Order and cannot go to the High Court without one. The HC I am afraid will not deal with your APP papers!!!

On the advice given there was a massive debate on this probably over 15 years ago when the DCLG under good old John Prescott circulated an instruction to Councils that said, in so many words, they should not be advising tenants to stay put.

There was rejoicing in the streets as landlords and agents started sending letters to Councils reminding them of this central edict to them.

The Councils responded by pointing out the Law to Two Jags and the advice they were in effect obliged to give, though it did suit them to do so and delay allocation of social housing, of course.

He had to amend his instructions and that was the end of it, nothing changed and will not do so until the LAW is changed.

All this High Court approach does is give you a possible quicker, but more expensive, method of enforcing the Order you have been granted and without which you cannot approach them.