C3 ( c ) AST ?

Hi Steve,

Please see my notes above and to help readers answer do you have a specific example of the group you are looking to rent to?

I am confused by your concerns?
The use Class is a planning issue nothing to do with the rental.
There is no offence of doing something without Planning Permission.
If the Local Planning Authority do come and ask then you can just submit a Planning application at that stage.
Even if they refuse it then an appeal is
Likely to take 18 months.
Keep records and after four years then you can apply for a Certificate of Lawful use.
I do think that you are over complicating it.
Jerry

Doing the necessary fire safety etc works and getting an HMO licence for your letting (if appropriate) is however a priority.

Reply to the comment left by Jerry Stone at 11/05/2020 - 11:24
That is not strictly correct as it depends what planning use you have and how you are letting the property. If you are issued with an enforcement notice (never ignore a visit from planning when they are making their case you can get time to apply then, - if you ignore them they will come back with an enforcement notice having been quiet for months and you think they've gone away, they haven't, you have an asset and a sitting duck) then you have 6 weeks to appeal and if you don't 6 months to comply with whatever they set you. Don't rely on 4 years either this is very onerous - the burden of proof is on you - and they can go back further (and often do).

Having said that I'm not exactly sure what the initial question is about - have you tried speaking to the duty planner at your local council without identifying yourself? This should set you straight!

Reply to the comment left by Harlequin Garden at 11/05/2020 - 15:09
With due respect I am a Planning Consultant a Landlord as well as a former Local Authority Enforcement Officer with over 20 years experience.
The last thing that I would do is to bring it to the attention of the Local Authority.
The first action that a L.P.A. should do is to invite a Planning Application.
If they did serve you with and enforcement notice then you are correct there is a limited time to Appeal. However if you then make a Planning Application the Enforcement Notice stops and it stops until such time as that Planning Application and any Appeal is Considered. You can also appeal the Enforcement Notice.
Your comments on the certificate of Lawfulness are I am afraid incorrect. I have prepared numerous certificates successfully.
These are considered on the balance of probability: It is more likely that it happened than it didn't in simple terms so if you save the correct evidence then it is very difficult for an L.P.A. to disprove it.
If you are going to consider approaching the L.P.A. you need to check the Planning Policies first as this will tell you whether its likely to be acceptable.
If you want to drop me an email to jerrystone7@btopenworld.com I will happily have a look for you.
Cheers
Jerry
Harlequins Gardens if you are gong to write that is not strictly correct I would suggest that you ensure that you really know the regulations. I certainly would not consider commenting on Gardening.

Reply to the comment left by Neil Patterson at 11/05/2020 - 09:31
Hi Neil,

Thanks very much - this links to a previous post of mine - I have a Restrictive Covenant " not to use or permit to be used except as a single private dwelling house " and have established that all of my immediate neighbours have the benefit of the RC and know that they will act to prevent C4 small HMO if able, I haven't been able to obtain legal indemnity insurance and in the course of my reading have stumbled on C3 ( c ) and so seeking advice as to whether this can be used for a let to ' pre- formed group ' of five university students on a single AST ? The legislation gives example of small religious group for C3 ( c ) and while I'm still reasonably confident of being able to find five students for the house being able to describe them as a small religious group might be a bit of a stretch....

Reply to the comment left by Jerry Stone at 11/05/2020 - 15:58
Thanks very much for your time and advice when we spoke this morning Jerry, am much obliged. Steve

Obviously we don't know what Jerry said but it's not just a planning issue, sounds like it would be a breach of your covenant and possibly would require an HMO licence.

Reply to the comment left by Puzzler at 12/05/2020 - 22:13
We had a very useful conversation and confirmed that there are no planning / enforcement issues re use as C4 HMO but the position re use under C3 ( c ) or C4 and potential breach of restrictive covenant less certain and I will need further legal advice.

Reply to the comment left by Jerry Stone at 11/05/2020 - 15:58
Jerry, you've repeated what I've said - at the time of writing we had no idea what his issue was so I commented generally for lawful use - I said 'do not identify yourself' when I suggested speaking to the duty planner.

I'm a landlord of 35 year, multiple property types including HMOs, I've been through most that can be thrown at me including applying for a CLUED where I was told clearly by the planning officer that I should supply 4 years 'proof' which I did and it was turned down - I did complain to her senior officer who told me to do it again using the reasons it was declined (lack of proof) - I'd supplied all the info the first time but went back 10 years and repeated 10 years instead of 4 - I did 10 years because I first gave it to a planning advisor who told me that they wouldn't touch it unless I supplied 10 years - which would give me a bill of around £20,000 as they charge per unit - so I did it myself successfully. I also sit on a planning committee so have an idea of my way around these things and wouldn't dream of commenting on anything I had no knowledge of or experience.

I stand by contacting the duty planner for information (without identifying yourself or property) and never ignore a visit from anyone from your local council departments. They do not repeat they enforce.
Well done you for steering Steve in the right direction, this is what this forum is all about.

Elizabeth
PS please don't come near my garden.