BTL individually owned, let through a LTD Company?

BTL individually owned, let through a LTD Company?

15:59 PM, 25th March 2015, About 10 years ago 49

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It seems we may have set up a method of working that is incorrect and seek your opinion. We own several properties in husband and wife names, we then set up a Limited Company and lease these to the company for a peppercorn rent.

The Limited company then lets the properties and manages them to tenants. All income and costs go through the company, minimum wages are drawn and dividends taken quarterly. It is a family business with only family employees.

We are both only 20% tax payers, this situation is nothing to do with tax it was done to protect our houses (assets) from anything going wrong in business.

All the houses are 100% owned outright. We thought that this is the correct way of trading our rental business, but are we doing something wrong?

Many thanks

Andrewlimited


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ann

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13:09 PM, 21st October 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 27/03/2018 - 11:39
Mark, to clarify: so you mean Andrew (the OP) despite having gone through scrutiny with HMRC (and now being in an OK structure as he has gone through HMRC scrutiny) is still not a structure to be replicated?

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

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8:18 AM, 22nd October 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Ann at 21/10/2018 - 13:09
I don’t understand your question. What “HMRC scrutiny” are you referring to please?

ann

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14:28 PM, 22nd October 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 22/10/2018 - 08:18
Sure.

I'm referring to Andrew Shepperd's message on 15:58 PM, 21st March 2018:

"We have now been through a full HMRC tax investigation! Be careful what you put online lol. We had to restructure what we were doing as the HMRC inspectors did not agree about the pepercorn rent. To cut a very long 12 month story short we complied fully with HMRC, received no fines, and basically had made an error when setting up. We still own all our property in our own name, we still rent them through our limited company to our tenants, our limited company works as the agent and charges appropriate and approved fees, the difference between the rental income and expenditure is then returned to us as owners. We pay corp tax through the ltd company and income tax on rents received as owners. We are members of the NLA and all our documentation such as AST s are used from there site, we also use there tenant check system. In plain simple terms you cannot lease your own property to your Ltd Company and then the company rent them out as the transaction is not deemed to be at arms length. Hope it helps."

What I read from it is that his structure is OK to be replicated, given he even got an OK from HMRC.

Ben Smith

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12:45 PM, 26th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Robert Mellors at 26/03/2015 - 13:03
Hi Robert,
Hope you are well.
I am contacting you after a post you commented on which was on the site property118. You have an exemplary biography and professional experience in renting and that is the area I am interested in.
I just bought a flat in my name (brand new, 999 year lease, underfloor heating you know the works) however my place of work is relocating me abroad so I am choosing to rent it out. I can afford the mortgage (and rent to live abroad) from my work place salary.
Where I need your advice is I am looking to create a Ltd. company (of which my parents and I will be directors of) to lease the flat from me. The company would then rent out the flat and act as the rent collector and letting agent and pay for damages repairs, advertising etc. My parents do would all the managing, I would retain as a director I guess to watch from a distance that it is all going okay (I will be living abroad post Christmas so I don’t really want to be involved). They are both retired now so it gives them something to keep them busy as well as I know my flat is in the hands of competent agents.
We recon the flat could be let out for £1250 pcm (2 bedroom brand spanking new in Surrey) and I would charge the company £800 pcm for leasing it from me. The remaining 450 each month of course pays for the up keep of the flat and whatever is left from that we pay 19% corporation tax and then my parents can take out a well-earned dividends from what remains.
Benefits:
I can put my flat in the hands of competent and trust worthy individuals for it to be rented out and managed as I will be outside the UK.
The income I receive is less than 12k (the tax free amount HMRC grants me).
The company pays its corporation tax and my parents can reward themselves with whatever is left. They are retired and sitting on their own investments they don’t need the money but it gives them something to do.
My question really is all this above board? I appreciate I am semi avoiding income tax (in so far as if I was to receive 100% on the rental income directly to me I would be over the tax free amount). But it is going to a company I part own, I won’t do any of the ‘work’, the company pays for the upkeep and surely I am allowed to lease my property out to anyone as I choose? Finally before you ask yes my mortgage lender is allowing me to rent it out even though I don’t have a buy to let mortgage they understand work is forcibly relocating me. They just wanted a formal letter from my work and that was enough to get the go ahead if I want to rent it out. Do I need further permission if I was leasing it to a company and then again it being rented to an individual? I have proved to my lender than my salary covers the mortgage and my rent abroad my ability to pay the mortgage has nothing to do with the renting of the flat, its just a side project for extra money.
Thanks for your time in reading this.

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

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13:18 PM, 26th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Ben Smith at 26/11/2018 - 12:45
I think this could be fraught with issues such as HMRC's "Transfer of income streams" rules - see link below.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/10/schedule/25

Robert M

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13:24 PM, 26th November 2018, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Ben Smith at 26/11/2018 - 12:45
Hi Ben Smith

I have just answered an identical question sent to me on Linked In under the name of William Swain. Is this your alias, or some person connected with you, or is this some sort of con? It all seems very suspicious. I advised you that in relation to tax matters you would be better off speaking to Mark Alexander as I am not an expert in tax so I am unable to advise on this.

ann

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19:30 PM, 15th January 2019, About 6 years ago

Reply to the comment left by andrew sheppard at 21/03/2018 - 15:58"we still rent them through our limited company to our tenants, our limited company works as the agent and charges appropriate and approved fees, the difference between the rental income and expenditure is then returned to us as owners. We pay corp tax through the ltd company and income tax on rents received as owners."
I don't understand. Doesn't this mean that "you lease your own property to your Ltd Company and then the company rent them out"?
Could you clarify the difference here @andrew sheppard?

Stewart

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12:26 PM, 17th September 2020, About 4 years ago

Hi everyone and I appreciate this post is quite old now but a very interesting read.
Did anyone ever have a definitive answer to whether you can rent your properties to your LTD company and then the LTD company let them out? I was looking to move all my properties into to the LTD company over time but of course, there is CGT and stamp duty to pay when doing this so it becomes an expensive project.
The sensible option to me (given I have no mortgage against any) is to do the above.
I am waiting for a reply for my accountant but if anyone has done this with any success and it not classed as avoidance I would be interested.

many thanks

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

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21:44 PM, 18th September 2020, About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Stewart at 17/09/2020 - 12:26
Yes, the definitive answer is that you can certainly do that but there will be no tax advantage in doing so. The legislation is linked below.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/10/schedule/25

I suggest you book a Property118 Tax Planning consultation - see https://www.property118.com/tax/

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