A better alternative to S24?

A better alternative to S24?

10:16 AM, 31st January 2017, About 8 years ago 69

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I was thinking about Section 24 and the news that Hammond recently commented that if we could replace the revenue expected from S24 he would consider its repeal. Revenue from S24 is due to be £665m/yr after the 4 year implementation, so I got my thinking cap on.

I came up with a 2% rental levy. Charged across the board on all revenue from residential property, it would have several advantages: A better alternative to S24

1. Could truly ‘level the playing field’ by being charged equally to mortgaged individuals, cash buyers, companies. Everyone would pay it equally and would know how much was expected of them in advance.

2. MUCH cheaper than S24 for mortgaged landlords, yet raises more money.

3. My calculations show that just over £803m would be raised – £150m+ MORE than S24.

4. Simple to calculate and without complications.

5. Does not increase rents by much if anything at all, and negates need for increased evictions, which saves public money elsewhere.

6. Shows we as landlords are willing to co-operate with govt aims if fair and proportionate.

My calculations are based on roughly 4.5m private rental properties generating an average of £744 a month. This figure goes up to £892 if you include London. The gross rental take is around £40.176bn a year (WITHOUT the extra from London!) so 2% is around £803m.

Can anyone spot the downsides? I’m sure cash landlords/foreigners/companies might moan, but if its applied to everyone there can be no claim of discrimination and everyone in property gets equally and proportionately targeted.

Please note I am NOT in favour of this, but as an alternative to S24 is it not worthy of consideration?

All comments welcome!


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JohnCaversham

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11:27 AM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

I'm one of those highly geared types looking at an 80-90% tax increase by 2020, i can evict, downsize and become super tax efficient by then but that's not really what I've been working towards for the last 22 years!

But what i do fail to see is the united front of PRS landlords? By my own research i recon 80% of all landlords will be caught, where is our constant combined voice? If i search Clause 24 on tinterweb there is little or nothing post Sept/Oct 2016, have we all given up!?

Grab those pitch forks and lets be London bound!

Old Mrs Landlord

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11:32 AM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Old Mrs Landlord" at "01/02/2017 - 11:10":

Apologies for the rogue apostrophe in the first "its" in above post. Can't understand why brain not connecting with fingers.

Darren Peters

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11:35 AM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

There are plenty of places the government could find that money if they were so inclined: coffee tax on all cups of coffee sold through non-UK based companies for example. Or criminalizing taking money as a beneficiary of any offshore trust. Or selling the Post Office for what it was worth.

Of course these would affect their friends (of both parties) with benefits.

The thought of doffing our cap and being grateful for a kick in the stomach because it's not a beheading is logical but sticks in the craw.

I strongly suspect that in the longer term, 5-10 years, Section 24 will be unravelled because it will have given the government a massive headache and they will finally understand they need the service we provide.

Whether we'll have survived the lean times is another matter.

Gromit

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11:39 AM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "John Maynard" at "01/02/2017 - 11:27":

Landlords, unfortunately, a disparate bunch, and there is no single register of people who are Landlords. What lists do exist are in the hands of Governments/Local Government who will not disclose them.

Many Landlords are still not aware of Sec.24 or if aware do not realise the consequences of it.

The problem has been connecting with all the ~2m Landlords that are out there.

Gromit

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11:42 AM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Old Mrs Landlord" at "01/02/2017 - 11:10":

Who knows how long it'll be before some future Chancellor decides to start reducing the 20% allowance on interest and start dropping it to raise a bit more revenue, which would affect all encumbered LL's (except corporates still).

Gromit

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11:49 AM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "dp1 Django" at "01/02/2017 - 11:35":

“The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to get the most feathers with the least hissing.” - Jean Bapiste Colbert

LL's are an easy target, despite the ruinous consequences of Sec.24 the "hissing" can barely be heard. Plus LL's are vilified as much as Bankers so Landlord bashing is popular with the general electorate. If all LLs properties were to be confiscated by the Government the majority of the general public would probably raise a cheer.

JohnCaversham

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11:57 AM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "Barry Fitzpatrick" at "01/02/2017 - 11:39":

That's the impression i get too, certainly wasn't till filing my accounts in Jan 2016 that the penny fully dropped and i realised the full horror, and maybe as accountants ask their clients for increases tax in 2018 that smaller single property landlords with a PAYE income will wake up and smell the coffee...Then go buy a pitch fork..!

Gromit

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12:07 PM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "John Maynard" at "01/02/2017 - 11:57":

The phasing in of Sec.24 will mean many LL's will only see a relatively small increase in tax payable; and if mixed in with their other tax liabilities it may not even be noticed.

For LL's being dragged into higher rate tax; in the first year it may not affect them at all, if 25% of their interest on top of their salary still keeps them below the Higher Rate tax threshold.

terry sullivan

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13:12 PM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

turkeys voting for christmas? no thanx

terry sullivan

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13:15 PM, 1st February 2017, About 8 years ago

Reply to the comment left by "dp1 Django" at "01/02/2017 - 11:35":

or even--stopping wasting money--i could identify billions of savings in 24 hours--just keep rolling over and you will get shafted even more

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