Are councils acting illegally when telling tenants to stay put?

Reply to the comment left by Rennie at 10/03/2023 - 16:34I have 2 emails forwarded to me by the tenant. One from the council and one from Citizens Advice.
The tenant was aware that the entire property (3 flats) was up for sale when they moved in and we had verbally agreed a date for them to move out by as I had accepted an offer on the property which required vacant possession.
The Council advised them not to move out on that date but to contact CAB.
The CAB advised the tenant that their fixed term tenancy had become a statutory periodic tenancy when they stayed on after the end of the fixed term and they should await a S21 notice. Further: "Runnymede Borough Council would therefore be correct stating that you should be given 2 months' notice and you told me that Runnymede BC also informed you that if you were to move out of the property prior to the expiration of the 2 months' notice statutory duty you will not only not be legally homeless, they will also consider that you made yourself intentionally homeless. Intentionality would mean that RBC is under no obligation to accept the relief duty. According to Shelter the relief duty means the following:
The relief duty requires an authority to 'take reasonable steps to help the applicant to secure that suitable accommodation becomes available for the applicant's occupation' for at least six months.[13] 'Help to secure' does not mean that the authority has to source and provide accommodation, but that it should try to agree reasonable steps for itself and the applicant which could result in accommodation being found.[14] There is, however, a power for authorities to provide accommodation as one of those reasonable steps.[15]
I understand that you are finding so very hard, despite your very best efforts, to find a private rented property 2 bed property for the LHA rate of £1100.00 per calendar month which is what you are allowed for you and your 14-year-old son and that you therefore intend to present as homeless as soon as your 2 months' notice period has expired. For the council to accept the relief duty you will need to show that you are homeless and are in priority need. Your 14y-old dependant son ought to qualify you as being in priority need and I enclose some info"
The enclosed info was from Shelter about who has priority need.
This has been incredibly stressful, especially losing a £1.6m sale. That sale was timed to coincide with the end of the fixed term mortgage and it has since risen 6 times (due to Trussenomics) . If anyone believes it is worth being a Landlord in they abolish S21 I would question their sanity as a Lanlord cannot decide to sell other than with sitting tenants (which equals under market value). If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to respond.

Reply to the comment left by Cathie French at 10/03/2023 - 18:39
Finally proof !
Perhaps we should start a crowdfunding site to raise a class action, this could help tenants too otherwise more private landlords would pull out and rents would therefore rise again.
How many members of Proprty 118 are there ?
If we all put in a small ammount it might stop this nonsense and protect us all from future financial pain.

Reply to the comment left by Cathie French at 10/03/2023 - 18:39The wording of the letter from the CAB you've said is:
"you told me that Runnymede BC also informed you that if you were to move out of the property prior to the expiration of the 2 months' notice statutory duty you will not only not be legally homeless, they will also consider that you made yourself intentionally homeless."
The inclusion of the words "you told me" means that the CAB advisor is simply stating what the tenant told him/her the council said, which is not necessarily what the council actually said, and as such it is not evidence of anything.
Unfortunately, I don't believe that this letter from the CAB would pass the evidential burdens required for taking the council to court.

As a landlord I completely sympathise. However, I also worked as a Homeless/Housing Adviser and have seen many people trying to fiddle the system. I was dismayed to hear a Shelter employee tell someone who was living with family to ask their family for a letter saying they had to leave. There isn't enough housing to go around, without professionals telling people to commit fraud. In my LA there were over 25,000 people waiting for social housing. The removal of s21 is going to make landlords less likely to take on tenants on benefits too. How is that going to help them?

Reply to the comment left by Angel at 16/03/2023 - 23:47
If this ‘professional’ did suggest a way forwards might be to commit/make a fraudulent action, then maybe the organisation should be asked to explain their recommendation!
We accept their is a major housing shortage in England, caused by many different reasons and in the short term (10:years maybe) we need to work together, pool our resources and hopefully make a positive difference.

I gave a s21 in Feb 2022. My tenants were in arrears and the house was a disgusting mess and I couldn't take it anymore but I did feel sorry for them so didn't go down the s8 route. I had tried to help them over the years but they were incapable of doing anything for themselves. By the time of the eviction it was 2 parents and a 26 year old daughter. The daughter had certain issues and needed the mother to care for her and neither parent was without their own issues.
The s21 I served was perfect with every box ticked. Unfortunately for all, they got "advice" from somewhere and filled in a defence which was weird when you read it. However, the court clearly didn't read it but just decided it should go to hearing where several months later I won immediately.
Today the bailiffs went in and ultimately the 3 of them ended up leaving a house full of stuff and walking pathetically down the road carrying a table and a chair, with nowhere to go. Only once they had the piece of paper from the bailiffs would the council help them, or so the baiiff told me.
So whatever the rules are, whatever the councils should do, this was the reality of today with Sutton council. I think it is dreadful. There was another party involved in all of this. My wife and I. We will be haunted by this, but on the flip side we couldn't afford to carry on housing them. What a country.

Some time back I had a tenant that used the Local Authority Housing Dept. (Council) when she turned bandit. I had her as tenant for about 5 years with a guarantor as she did not work. Two children and then another from a new relationship. No issues so far- until I noticed a non payment. She did explain the circumstances and since I knew the family I was not too concerned. She called me several times keeping me up to date and payment was made. Winter came and payments delayed or stopped, Then guarantor notified me by a solicitors letter that she wished to pull out of being a guarantor. The legal mafia wanted me to produce all sorts of personal information, tenancy agreement and details of my banking statements etc. Now, I have a Masters Degree in law (never practised - just despise the profession and use the knowledge to defend myself), so I told them in writing to Foxtrot Oscar!

Arrears continued to build up, non payment, no communication. would not answer her mobile, ignored e mails etc.

She did however allow the Gas Safety chap in for the annual safety check. He had called me a minute or two before hand that he was "outside" but failed to get an answer. As we were talking she arrived back from wherever. I called her again but she refused to answer. I called the Gas Safety chap - I had used him for nearly 15 years - asking him to tell her to ring me or in the alternative speak to me on his mobile. Nothing, a complete blank.

I followed this up with a Special Delivery letter. She signed for it. Still nothing in response,

Arrears now approaching £5K I sent her a final warning to settle the arrears before a given date or get out. If she failed to vacate by or on the prescribed date a Section 21 would be issued immediately. The date for vacating was a Sunday with filing of the Section 21 Notice in default on Monday. I had prepared all required documents and bundles in advance- all that remained was to pay the fee and lodge the application.

Lo and behold I had an un announced call from Council alleging that I was harassing the tenant and that if proved I would /could be facing imprisonment and or a substantial fine. Yes, harassment!

She had fed them a whole litany of hard luck stories but nothing about the lies, failures to communicate and above all nothing (from them) about the arrears. The Council had trawled through all documents available to them including Rent Smart in Wales. All personal information was being passed without any compliance with Data Protection Regulations etc.

I welcomed their threat to prosecute me for alleged harassment and looked forward to receiving their statement of claim. It never came.

A week or two later I had an email from SHELTER who claim they were acting for the council. They invited my response and were seeking to arrange a meeting with me at their location 185 miles from where I live.

I replied to their email pointing out that they were "not on the record" in this matter, Good legal words "not on the record" . Essentially it was another Foxtrot Oscar. Or was it?

Next day I had a call on my land line from SHELTER. Where did they get my ex directory number from?. She claimed to be from the "legal department. After a few moment she too was dispatched in a similar manner.

As days went by a few more emails from SHELTER and the Council which met the same response. Both SHELTER and the Council had requested details of the arrears as now they were in dispute. So, they wanted my bank statements, it was not enough to check her payment records they said. Again I refused to give them any information and should they persist in harassing me it would be open to me to apply to the Court for an injunction.

The day for vacating was looming (2 days) when Tenant emailed me requesting a further day. In reply, a refusal to allow another day and a further reminder that a Section 21 would be filed in default.

I travelled the 185 miles on vacating date and booked in to a Premier Inn so that I would file the S. 21 if she defaulted.

I travelled to the property. She had gone that morning. I let myself in and surveyed the condition. Filthy and grimy with damage here and there -all of which were replaceable.

I returned home next day to be met by answer phone and e mail messages from Shelter and the Council. They claimed once again I had harassed her and that "I must allow her to return to her home" and that I had acted illegally.

My response - Thank for for your email and telephone messages - the contents of which are noted but not agreed.

Never heard from either Council or Shelter again.

I had contractors in to ready the house for sale which completed on 1st viewing at asking price.

With this experience behind me I got out of the jungle.

So my message is take SHELTER on and remind them that they are "Not On The Record in this matter.

Reply to the comment left by Just A Queen at 03/03/2023 - 12:59
👍

I am a private landlord. Gone down the road of a possession order and the Worthing Council told the tenant to wait until the bailiffs turn up. Another load of Solicitor’s fee and another month to do! I’m furious I can’t sue the Council for this 😡😡😡

Reply to the comment left by Ruth Touhey at 11/04/2023 - 19:09
Tenants now out, left a mess as well as a debt, cost us thousands including legal and bailiff fees, last time we help someone who is struggling ! We can't afford it !