Council tenant above regularly flooding our property!

Don't waste time trying to catch her in the act, when it happens, record the dates and times... It probably coralates with her taking a bath or shower.

Ask the council WHO they sent round.... It takes a good plumber (not a council worker) to identify the source because it could be something as simple as the silicone round the bath needs replacing.... Nothing to do with the pipes

Never mind looking at HER property.... Get them to look at yours (and video it when it is happening).

Obviously you can't pour water down through your own ceiling and tge owner of the flat above (the council) is legally responsible for any "escape of water" (that's what it's officially called) fromeir property.

Tell them they need to pay to repair your flat.... Then they might be more interested in stopping the peoblem

1. Ask the Council for the report from the qualified person who inspected her property, their position in the council or third party. And what was actually inspected and importantly how!!
2 check your insurance policy to see whether your legal cover can help
3 photograph, video document meticulously every event, damage caused cost to repair, accoumulate all costs.
4 If 2 is not a valid option, consult a solicitor to write to the council
5 write to the tenant above notifying her of the issue and copy to the council
6 invite the council to inspect your property & the damage, note the conversation and write a summary of the meeting to them in your words. For them to write back and dispute it, they must’ve done tests.
7 if the tenant above is pouring substances into the waste pipes, these fur up and cause blockages only allowing a certain amount of water to flow, therefore for things like washing Machines there is a backflow of water up this pipe onto the floor and soaking through to you. This can only be identified through having qualified Company come in and do camera inspections. If there’s an issue they can then clear. We had experience of this very issue, with a neighbour at one of our properties and the flat above them.

Exactly the same issue

8 Of course it could be a cracked pipe in the floor, or going through the wall which affects your property below unless there is a camera inspection or items are remote within the property its unlikely that you’ll see them.

9 is there a theme to the floodings, are they always on a particular day or a particular time.

10 On another aspect of water flooding if the kitchen sink waste has issues this is another place to check. Also overflows on toilets, Bathroom or kitchens where Overflows are in use.

Hopefully, some or all of these will be useful

Put in an insurance claim under the buildings insurance policy.

The Council won’t / can’t evict her if they are also the Leaseholder ie the flat is not owned by a 3rd party and privately rented to someone who qualifies for housing benefit.

Are the floors concrete?
Has the silicone round the bath been checked or renewed? Are the taps in the bath seated and sealed properly ? Does this only happen when the shower, if there is one over the bath, is being used? Is the shower curtain long enough to fall inside the bath?
What is the condition of the bathroom flooring? Ask these questions

The only thing you know for certain is that the water is coming from the flat or the communal area outside your flat. So, the council is the freeholder and, in my book, they are responsible. I don't think it matters whether the cause is property or the tenant, it is clearly not yours. So I would make a liability claim on the council. I would send them a detailed letter before action, listing all the incidents and dates, listing all the contacts you and your tenants have had with the council and listing your losses to date. State that this is a letter before action and give them 28 days to pay you for your losses, else you will sue them for this amount.
Suing them will cost you very little and you can do it all on https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk.
The fee is modest and you get this back if you win. I recently sued South Wales Police when they smashed down the door of my flat, trying to get to a loopy tenant of mine. They said I should pay the cost, I sued them and they settled out of court.
If nothing else, the council might take you seriously and fix the root cause of the problem.

Reply to the comment left by Steve Riley-Snelling at 04/06/2024 - 11:07Steve.
Local.Police did siimilar to an HMO.
Broke every door, separate ASTs 'looking' for a single tenant on a 'health issue'.
I would like to understand exactly how you went about it as I thought MCOL is not available for these cases.

I've had 2x issues with water flowing thro ceilings, and these are simply my experiences, and I accept may not be helpful to you, but I wanted to share,
1, tenant reported water dripping onto kitchen floor,
When I visited she also reported one of the the kitchen lights didn't work and regularly tripped the RCBO.
Worryingly, Tenant had a knife in a stick-on toothbrush holder next to the shower.
She explained that she discovered that loosening the screw in the centre of the bath waste with the knife quickly drained the bath because it filled with water when she had a long shower!
The kitchen light fitting had been turned into a fish bowl and was full of water!
Resolution,-
Tenant education,
removing the knife from the bathroom,
my electrician changed the light fitting, and
I removed enough hair to stuff a pillow from the bath trap and added a bottle of Mr Muscle for good measure.
The other time there was water dripping randomly from the kitchen ceiling and water occasionally came out of one of the kitchen sockets!
This took a while to find but eventually the cause was traced to a shower curtain usage error, one the tenants was showering with the shower curtain hanging outside the bath!
My electrician was needed for this too to replace a socket.

Reply to the comment left by Jim K at 04/06/2024 - 12:47
The Police told me I could not claim or sue them. They would, though, wouldn't they? In my case, the main door to the building was so damaged that they took everything away... the agent thought someone had nicked the door. I only found out when I reported this to the police and they said that an "incident" had occurred. To cut a long story short, they said that because they were acting on a warrant, and that the tenant was "vulnerable", i.e. mental, they were acting within the law and were not liable I argued that that may be the case but that did not give them the right to destroy my door, fail to tell me, and expect me to cough up the best part of £1,000 for an incident that was nothing to do with me. After an exchange of emails and calls, I issued the Letter Before Action. Rather than pay me to cover my losses, they instructed a lawyer in Cardiff who specialised in Police Law. As an aside, at say. £300 per hour, her costs must have been far in excess of the amount I was claiming.

I filled out a statement online and submitted copies of my bills. I was asked if I would agree to mediation. It always pays to say yes, as this saves court time and looks good should it end up in court. In my experience, arbitration often results in a slightly lower settlement, but far better to get that than have to attend a court hearing, or worse, suck it up and get nowt.

The Police were also asked if they would agree to arbitration, but rather than respond, they offered me £250. I told them that was derisory and I would see them in court. They upped their offer to £750 and I accepted. I was living in Spain at the time and the costs of travelling and accommodation in Wales would have been far in excess of £250.

I have also sued two tenants for rent arrears and got every penny back, and I threatened to sue a council for failing to carry out repairs. The Letter Before Action got that sorted within a week.

I hope this is helpful.

My experience with this almost identical issue just a few weeks ago was that insurance was not worth the paper it's written on.
It's an entirely "you can't be serious" scenario.
Don't start to think it's like car insurance, i.e you get rear ended, not your fault, you claim, car repaired at the other person's expense as it's their fault and you get on with your life. No. Not at all.

We initiated claim and got forms after council tenant water damaged our ground floor flat, twice.
They get slippery over liability i.e tenant above didn't knowingly flood your flat so it's technically not their fault. In every event you'll have to pay excess, £450 for us.
You can't claim that back in the claim as it wasn't intentional damage so you're the one claiming and out of pocket in every scenario.
So damage in the property to fix and excess to pay. People living above oblivious to it.
Long story short we just paid and got it fixed ourselves as cost was less than excess.
Council were sympathetic but bound by the insurance.

Thanks all.

To fill in some of the blanks, the latest plumber/gas engineer from the council's approved contractor stated nothing wrong upstairs but that the flooring didn't extend under the bath so any water pools down there. This despite them, sealing everything up' a few times ago. Also told me that he bathroom floor was ruined and her hallway was going the same way with water damage. He suspects she is angling for another flat.

We're now waiting for the council to confirm the problem is resolved before the insurance claim/work can start.

The difficulty is there is no technical problem it's an anti-social behaviour problem. The anti-social behaviour isn't going away. I don't want to be stuck where the work can't start until the ASB is stopped (years if ever!). If we proceed without insurance go-ahead they will say we should have waited for it but they won't give a deadline.

Ie should we get 2 quotes, do the work, & send the bill to the council together with a letter before action? The repair is likely to be wrecked again so keep repairing and invoicing council? Or something else?

Thanks again

Reply to the comment left by Darren Peters at 05/06/2024 - 22:10"Ie should we get 2 quotes, do the work, & send the bill to the council together with a letter before action? The repair is likely to be wrecked again so keep repairing and invoicing council? Or something else?"
I think that's your call. I hate to hear of the situation, we have to deal with it too so I get it but nobody can tell you what is best. Ensure dialogue with council
Good Luck whatever you do.